Praying for people who are truly evil

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I saw a FoxNews interview with one of the Phelps gang the other night. Then I went to this site:

addictedtohate.com/

It’s an online book about Fred Phelps and his history of child and spousal abusive. It was incredibly disturbing.

I know this people need our prayers, but how? I just can’t get myself to pray for a person like that. 😦
 
Prayer is pretty much the only way we can get through to these people…but remember, no one is truly 100% evil. As everyone was created by God, eevryone has some good in them, including Lucifer - although they choose to hide it.
 
I feel it is a better use of my time praying for the victims. How many people can you be expected to pray for? If your heart is not in it does it count?

If you need to pray for a Sinner consider the women who are considering, or have had abortions and their babies.
 
Hmmm…do something good for Fred Phelps…do something good for Fred Phelps…

Nah, I’d really rather continue to dislike him intensely. My opinion of him as a horrible human being stands.
 
I didn’t realize that Jesus meant “thou shalt not judge” only in cases where a person’s sins meet certain criteria.

Phelps is not more or less evil than any of us. His particular sins are different, and they have caused some anguish among people who are offended.

How many Christians believe that God hates homosexuals in their hearts, but just don’t dare protest because they are more pious than honest?

In the spirit realm, if you hate Fred Phelps than you do not love unconditionally as Christ loved yet.

Do you think Christ meant to exclude certain sinners – such as maybe those who actually hammered the nails in Him – from His prayer “Father forgive them for they know not what they do?”

Fred Phelps’ objectionable material can serve to make us stronger Christians, but most of us choose to judge. If we love him unconditionally and respect him just as much as our neighbors and ourselves, then we have obeyed Christ’s commands to love each other as we do ourselves, to love our enemies, and to repay evil with good.

If we judge and condemn Phelps, then we are repaying evil with evil. That seems pretty straightforward to me.

If we look at it as a test from God, then it behooves us to learn how to love him – this will help to purify us and move us toward that unconditional love.

Alan
 
Liberalsaved said:
Hmmm…do something good for Fred Phelps…do something good for Fred Phelps…

Nah, I’d really rather continue to dislike him intensely. My opinion of him as a horrible human being stands.
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This isn’t right. We need to constantly keep these people in our prayers. What good will come out of not doing anything but gripe about how much you dislike them?
 
If I may suggest?
People from Phelps’ group will be demonstrating at a military funeral in Brighton NY this weekend…A group of vets who have motrocycles will be forming a line to keep the young man’s family from seeing the hateful signs; and they will sing God Bless America over the tops of the Phelps crew’s voices.
This is a completely peaceful voluntary act of compassion by these men…Perhaps those who cannot bring themselves to pray for Fred Phelps & his followers, instead of wasting energy on anger, might like to pray for those who are working to protect the family from this madness…That all might remain peaceful, & that the family not have to see & hear this wickedness in their hour of grief…

The police will be at hand, but the aim is to keep everything dignified & peaceful as posssible for the sake of the mourners.

God bless all here.
 
A group of vets who have motrocycles
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Yes, they’re the informal mafia called the Hell’s Angels. Doesn’t change that they’re doing good here, but I just thought you maybe should know.😃

Anyway…It’s nice to know so many people here are sinless. Have you ever tried the spiritual exercise recommended by Leo XIII, of trying to imagine how you could commit any given sin? It’s illuminating, and forces a little humility and charity on you.

Which doesn’t mean you don’t punch these Westboro guys firmly in the mouth, of course; it just means you don’t presume to judge their spiritual state. Actually, punching them in the mouth might do them some good. Their actions are certainly objectively wrong, so they should be stopped.
 
Hastrman said:
Yes, they’re the informal mafia called the Hell’s Angels. Doesn’t change that they’re doing good here, but I just thought you maybe should know.😃

Anyway…It’s nice to know so many people here are sinless. Have you ever tried the spiritual exercise recommended by Leo XIII, of trying to imagine how you could commit any given sin? It’s illuminating, and forces a little humility and charity on you.

Which doesn’t mean you don’t punch these Westboro guys firmly in the mouth, of course; it just means you don’t presume to judge their spiritual state. Actually, punching them in the mouth might do them some good. Their actions are certainly objectively wrong, so they should be stopped.
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Actually they’re not Hell’s Angels; this is a perfectly legal group of bikers.
I know some of them; they are respectable citizens who work at a regular job. (One:) picks up my garbage every Thursday).They do kinda look like Hell’s Angels, which is plus for their ability to keep the Westboro idiots out of the parents’ faces. But they’re not an outlaw group. Not this club, anyhow.

God bless.
 
Phelps actions are despicable. But so are the actions of many homosexual activist groups. If Phelps would stick to making life uncomfortable for homosexual activists I’d say bravo. But that group doesn’t. They harass homosexuals themselves, they harass people at funerals and they make life miserable for all kinds of people.

Don’t we have some obligation to actually confront and stop them?

Furthermore, are there people who fall beneath the grace of God? What is an apostate?

CDL
 
There are two prayers that come to mind relative to this discussion. The first is the petition the children at Fatima were asked to include in their Rosary:

“Oh, my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need of Thy mercy.” (emphasis added)

The other is a prayer of intention. It can be included in your Morning Offering, or prayed in connection with an act of worship or an act of pennance:

“For the conversion of sinners - for my own conversion and the conversion of those who will die this day. Lord Jesus, in Thy infinite Mercy, and through the intercession of Thy most holy Mother, let not one of them be lost. But rather, let a single drop of Thy Most Precious Blood fall upon them in their final hour that they might turn again to Thee and be saved, and dwell with Thee for all eternity.”
 
There are many things about Mr. Phelps to admire. He’s definitely not lukewarm.

What if more Catholics were as passionate about their beliefs as he is?

FInd Jesus in others.
 
Trelow said:
There are many things about Mr. Phelps to admire. He’s definitely not lukewarm.

What if more Catholics were as passionate about their beliefs as he is?

FInd Jesus in others.
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There is nothing positive to say about what this guy is doing. Think about the harm he is cousing to these families.
 
EBSSTF4 said:
There is nothing positive to say about what this guy is doing. Think about the harm he is cousing to these families.
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I didn’t say his actions were admirable; but his determination & conviction certainly are.
 

And we know that we are better than X or Y or Z, because…? 😃​

How do we know that we are - from God’s POV - any better than those we criticise ?

This is what I like about the Gospel 🙂 - it levels all men, because in comparison with the perfect righteousness of God, we are are all sinners, we have “all come short of the Glory of God” (see Romans 1 to 3 for details). So it is sublimely irrelevant whether we are genocidal mass-murderers, racialist bigots, or (so-called) “faithful Catholics” who always use NFP: the fact is that we all are sinful, we all are under condemnation, & we all are in need of infinite mercy at every moment.

People who are truly evil ? We are all that - God alone is Good ##
 
Liberalsaved said:
Nah, I’d really rather continue to dislike him intensely. My opinion of him as a horrible human being stands.
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I’m not arguing with your assessment that some people are just plainly horrible people. Sanctity is not to be found in trying to make down into up or to deny that black isn’t white.

Still, not ten minutes ago, I told one of my boys that he and his brother had to forgive each other, or else they’d have to play apart until they could do that.

He said, “Why?” I said, “Remember the part in the Our Father, where Jesus taught us to pray, ‘Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.’? That isn’t in there because God doesn’t want to forgive us all the time. It is because if we don’t forgive, our hearts get hard and we can’t accept forgiveness. That is just the way we are made.”

When we die, I believe that we are going to get a big dollop of truth about where we stand on the “horrible person” scale. When we honestly confront what we chose to be with that which the gifts of God made us capable of, we are going to need to be able to accept an enormous amount of forgiveness.

If we hold on to the idea that some people are just too bad to forgive and we are confronted with how much mercy we need, I think we may not have it in us to accept that forgiveness and be cleansed of our faults for eternal life.

In other words, accept being made into what God made you to be, or face the Hell of choosing to be something else. It not a journey that most of us will be able to make in a day, but I fear that it may turn out to be that simple.

We need to pray for all, especially those in most need of God’s mercy. In the end, it may turn out to be us.
 
Yes, pray for these Westboro Baptists. Pray also for the souls of everyone who was truly evil- Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Martin Luther, and others.
 
AlanFromWichita said:
. . .
Phelps is not more or less evil than any of us. His particular sins are different, and they have caused some anguish among people who are offended… . .
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Well, let’s see; if Mother Theresa of Calcutta were still alive on earth and ministering to the poor there’d be a whole passel of difference between her sinfulness and that of Mr. Phelps. His actions, not disconnected from the state of his soul, certainly demonstrate a level sinfulness unknown to many Saints (known and unknown) and also to many alive today who are following in the footsteps of the same.
 
FCEGM said:
Well, let’s see; if Mother Theresa of Calcutta were still alive on earth and ministering to the poor there’d be a whole passel of difference between her sinfulness and that of Mr. Phelps. His actions, not disconnected from the state of his soul, certainly demonstrate a level sinfulness unknown to many Saints (known and unknown) and also to many alive today who are following in the footsteps of the same.
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The good thing is that it is not our job to decide whether one’s holiness is in keeping with the gifts and graces they have been given. We only know what is between us and God, and we know that only dimly. We know with certainty, though, that we have been called to forgive, and so be forgiven ourselves.

You have probably seen this quotation attributed to Mother Theresa. The first couplet says it all.

People are often unreasonable,
illogical, and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of
Selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you successful, you will win some
False friend and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank,
People may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building,
Someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness,
They may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today,
People will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have,
And it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you’ve got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis,
It is between you and God;
It never was between you and them anyway.
 
We can know that some actions are evil and some actions are good. If we didn’t there would be no purpose to the sacrament of confession. We can know that some actions are evil in the sense that they abrogate clearly defined standards of behavior in Catholic Tradition.

We may not be able to judge a motive with clarity but we sure as heck can determine that this or that act is good or evil.

CDL
 
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