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jeanannemarie
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Today one of my protestant friends skoffed at the idea of praying for the dead. How do I defend this?
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fulbert4605
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God demands 2 types of debt be paid for sins.
Eternal debt is remitted in the sacrament of Confession (this deals with the debt Jesus repaid to The Father once The Father demanded it after The Fall. If we unite ourselves to Jesus’ cause and are truly humble God will forgive us)
Temporal debt is remitted on earth and/or Purgatory. This is the temporal punishment to cleanse ourselves of sins.
An analogy which Father Vincent Serpa uses on the Apologetics Forum is if you spill a glass of orange juice all over the floor. You can ask your parents for forgiveness. They grant it. But there is still the mess of orange juice to be cleaned up.
Praying for the dead consists of praying for someone whose soul is yet in Purgatory due to temporal debt not being fully paid while yet on the earth. You are praying to God to show them His Mercy that their temporal punishment be shortened. This is a great act of mercy on your part since those souls suffering in Purgatory are truly helpless.
Eternal debt is remitted in the sacrament of Confession (this deals with the debt Jesus repaid to The Father once The Father demanded it after The Fall. If we unite ourselves to Jesus’ cause and are truly humble God will forgive us)
Temporal debt is remitted on earth and/or Purgatory. This is the temporal punishment to cleanse ourselves of sins.
An analogy which Father Vincent Serpa uses on the Apologetics Forum is if you spill a glass of orange juice all over the floor. You can ask your parents for forgiveness. They grant it. But there is still the mess of orange juice to be cleaned up.
Praying for the dead consists of praying for someone whose soul is yet in Purgatory due to temporal debt not being fully paid while yet on the earth. You are praying to God to show them His Mercy that their temporal punishment be shortened. This is a great act of mercy on your part since those souls suffering in Purgatory are truly helpless.
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PAboy57
Guest
I look at it in a simple way.Today one of my protestant friends skoffed at the idea of praying for the dead. How do I defend this?
Would GOD have anyone who is not pure stand before Him? There has to be a place where any soul that has some stain goes for final preparation. It just makes sense. It also makes sense that if they are dead they can’t do anything for themselves anymore. So we help them by praying for His mercy.
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theotikos
Guest
Attached is a document that lists many different aspects of Catholicism and scriptural evidence for it, hence purgatory.Today one of my protestant friends skoffed at the idea of praying for the dead. How do I defend this?
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
You could try this, A man lived a life of sin. He was flying one day when the plane broke and was hurtling to the earth. During those final seconds he begged forgiveness so will he go to heaven? Next to him was a man who lived a life of service yet in his final seconds he said terrible things will he go to hell? Does the life matter before those final seconds? Catholics believe each man performs his temporal punishment in purgatory whether that penalty be small or large. Those serving their punishments are who we pray for.Today one of my protestant friends skoffed at the idea of praying for the dead. How do I defend this?
Now there is another way in Luke 16 (26-31)is a story where the dead man is begging to visit the living to tell them to repent and follow the prophets. So how could your friend accept the dead praying to save the living yet refuse the living praying to save the dead?
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NHInsider
Guest
Your Protestant friend will just point to the thief on the cross and say “he went straight to heaven.”
If this is just a casual interaction and not an established apologetics discussion, I’d simply suggest to your friend that if your prayers for the dead are of no value to the deceased, you trust Him to apply them to some living person who needs prayer. Tough for any believer to argue with that.
In my experience (and I spent 20+ years in Evangelicalism) purgatory is not the place to begin in apologetics. But if you’re determined, I Cor. 3:9-15 is a good place to start. Paul states pretty clearly that a person may be saved but still subjected to purifying fire that burns away whatever works are unworthy. Purgatory refers to that process of purification (we describe it as a “place” just as we do “heaven” and “hell” but those are space-time words we’re trying to use to describe a reality that exists in eternity.)
It’s important to point out that Purgatory is for those saved by grace, not a second-chance for the damned, which is a misunderstanding many non-Catholics (and some Catholics) have.
The other piece to bring into the discussion is Jesus’ comment that Jesus is “not the God of the dead but of the living” (Mark 12:27 and its parallels), as well as Paul’s observations that “nothing (explicitly including death) can separate us” from Christ (Romans 8) and that all believers are “members of His Body” (Romans 12 and I Cor. 12). So how can we assert that death separates the members from one another? And why should death put an end to the responsibility we have to “bear one another’s burdens”) (Romans 15 and Galatians 6)
I’m sure there are other references but these are the first ones that come to mind for me.
If this is just a casual interaction and not an established apologetics discussion, I’d simply suggest to your friend that if your prayers for the dead are of no value to the deceased, you trust Him to apply them to some living person who needs prayer. Tough for any believer to argue with that.
In my experience (and I spent 20+ years in Evangelicalism) purgatory is not the place to begin in apologetics. But if you’re determined, I Cor. 3:9-15 is a good place to start. Paul states pretty clearly that a person may be saved but still subjected to purifying fire that burns away whatever works are unworthy. Purgatory refers to that process of purification (we describe it as a “place” just as we do “heaven” and “hell” but those are space-time words we’re trying to use to describe a reality that exists in eternity.)
It’s important to point out that Purgatory is for those saved by grace, not a second-chance for the damned, which is a misunderstanding many non-Catholics (and some Catholics) have.
The other piece to bring into the discussion is Jesus’ comment that Jesus is “not the God of the dead but of the living” (Mark 12:27 and its parallels), as well as Paul’s observations that “nothing (explicitly including death) can separate us” from Christ (Romans 8) and that all believers are “members of His Body” (Romans 12 and I Cor. 12). So how can we assert that death separates the members from one another? And why should death put an end to the responsibility we have to “bear one another’s burdens”) (Romans 15 and Galatians 6)
I’m sure there are other references but these are the first ones that come to mind for me.
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jeanannemarie
Guest
Thank you each and every one for your thoughtful comments. Even when I understand something myself it becomes difficult to defend in those moments where I feel put on the spot. I will reread all of these comments. My friend is used to me coming back later with more information. I will be better prepared. I would rather do it this way than make a blunder of Catholicism. Thanks again.
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