Praying for the dead

[Catholic_poet]

Since I’m somewhat new here, I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but if not perhaps you could point me elsewhere.

I was listening to a radio show on the way home from work and the announcer asked us to pray for the conversion of people already dead – for example, Hitler. Now I remember reading C.S. Lewis years ago and he was advancing the theory that because God is outside of time, we can basically pray for anything at anytime (i.e., praying for someone whose eternal fate has already been decided in a linear view). But of course, C.S., bless him, wasn’t catholic.

Does anyone know if the church has any official teaching on this?

Yours in puzzlement,

Catholic poet

 

[Scoobyshme]

Sounds like the guy you heard was Mormon (LDS). They believe you can be baptized after you’re dead.

The Church, however, teaches that once you’re dead, that’s it. Whatever state your soul is in at that moment is it.

 

[mark_a]

Sounds like the guy you heard was Mormon (LDS). They believe you can be baptized after you’re dead.

The Church, however, teaches that once you’re dead, that’s it. Whatever state your soul is in at that moment is it.

But that doesn’t necessarily preclude praying for the dead, even Hitler, does it?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Sounds like the guy you heard was Mormon (LDS). They believe you can be baptized after you’re dead.

The Church, however, teaches that once you’re dead, that’s it. Whatever state your soul is in at that moment is it.

However, God is not bound by time, and we can’t know what went between them and God at the moment before death. One may [should] pray that they were given the grace by God to repent at the moment of death.

I have especially in mind a young woman who left her family, and went on the street. She was beaten by her pimp, dumped in an auto trunk, doused with gas, and lit on fire. I pray she had the grace to repent and forgive her killer in those last moments. I can’t imagine how she could at that point, but it is up to God to make such things possible.

 

[GaryTaylor]

You should ask an Apologist their thoughs.on this. Because this really is a can of worms. Immediatly what comes to my mind is Purgatory. This has been debated since the start of the Catholic Church with Helena, Martin Luther and the Reformers, Thomas Aquinas, Pope Leo IV and Pope Pius VII? And it actually was part of the Bible before the reformation in the Aprocyphia. Ask and Apologist their thinking on this.

Simply put if Death of the physical body is the end? Theres no need to pray. But when Pugatory comes into play? Its a different take on venial sin and their dept. The question is not one of one Praying of the Dead. But how Catholics or Christians each achieve this?

 

[Catholic_poet]

Thanks, everybody, for your thoughts.

I know the speaker wasn’t Mormon, Scooby, because this was a Catholic radio station.

And Gary, as best I understand it, the church does teach that once you’re dead, that’s it as far as your eternal state.

However, the idea isn’t that you can change the condition of someone already dead, as in bumping them up from hell into heaven. The idea, as I understand it anyway, is that when Hitler, for example, was at the point of death, God – knowing all things from eternity – would know that 70-some years later I would take it into my head to pray for him and would answer that “future” prayer by granting Hitler the grace to repent as he was dying.

It’s a lovely idea and it offers me some comfort when I think of people I knew and loved who died unexpectedly and I’m not sure of what the state of their soul was at that moment. I’d like to think it’s true from the standpoint that God’s grace always finds a way. I suppose it’s one of those cases where we can’t know, but can trust and pray.

Catholic poet

 

[GaryTaylor]

Oh no problem brother. I have done much thinking on this. There are Catholic Prayers for the Dead. I have a couple, if you want PM me and I’ll send them to you.

These are tough questions my friend. I thought it through pretty well before I suggested you contact Ask an Apologist.

You know what though, I wouldn’t use Hitler. Unless you know something about his last momets that I don’t? But more like George Washington, for an example, Washington was a Free Mason so that alone will give you his state of mind in faith. Yet on his death bed he was observed with a Holy Rosary? Thus we can assume he might have made an attempt to covert and give his life to God. I don’t know for certain here. Again this is just an example.

And there have been many, many case’s of individuals ranging from Athiests, to other Various faiths who in their last moments say these Three Words, “God Help Me”? I honestly don’t believe they are forgiven at this point. And I also believe that their fear is of Dying period. Not of passing on without Jesus in their life. But yet I’m only assuming, I simply can’t know for sure.

As a Catholic I have always visited the graves of my family to pray and address small maintenance issues with the sight. Matter of fact I’m going to my fathers grave this weekend. I did some work there a few weeks back and want to go back and follow up on it.

Tough questions though. The Apostle Paul comes to mind always with these related topics. As a Roman General, Saul murdered many Christians. Jesus came to him, not in a vision, but directly spoke to him. And said, “Saul. why do you hate me”? he was changed from that moment on. But we are now talking about the Apostle Paul. He stickly followed the words of Jesus Christ. He said, “I, Paul, am a prisoner of Jesus Christ, what are you a prisoner of”? Those words from one sentence tell you, he committed his life to Jesus Christ way before death. The other followers of Jesus were greatly concerned when Saul first came speaking of Jesus Christ. And Jesus said to them, Leave him alone, he will know in his life what it is to suffer. So there was much repentance from the Apostle Paul. BTW sorry about the scripture quotes. They may not be word for word since they are from memory. Yet I’m pretty sure the thinking behind them is correct.

But yes this is a difficult question. I’d be interested to hear what an Apologist says also.

Good day and God Bless Brother, GT