Praying the 1962 Missal at the NO Mass

[palmas85]

A Layman cannot “pray” the Mass.

1. Therefore, they are to be praised who, with the idea of getting the Christian people to take part more easily and more fruitfully in the Mass, strive to make them familiar with the “Roman Missal,” **so that the faithful, united with the priest, may pray together in the very words and sentiments of the Church. They **also are to be commended who strive to make the liturgy even in an external way a sacred act in which all who are present may share. This can be done in more than one way, when, for instance, the whole congregation, in accordance with the rules of the liturgy, either answer the priest in an orderly and fitting manner, or sing hymns suitable to the different parts of the Mass, or do both, or finally in high Masses when they answer the prayers of the minister of Jesus Christ and also sing the liturgical chant.

Mediator Dei, Pope Pius XII. The document that is said to have paved the way for active participation of the laity at the level it is today. It seems to directly contradict your rather remarkable charge.

Somewhere along the way, the idea of the laity actually praying the Mass got misplaced in the mad crush to always be doing something physical so that we could say that we are “actively participating” Someone who prays the Mass along with the Priest is most definitely participating and at a high level also.

I do not agree with taking the Traditional Missal to the Ordinary Form of the Mass or vice versa however and it could be seen as problematic or possibly even disrespectful.

 

[Timothysis]

Could you please answer **my **question? The poster explained what he meant by “not actively participate” - aka no CITH, hand holding, etc. You replied by saying that was thoroughly disgusting. Again I ask you, how is that thoroughly disgusting?

Perhaps “not actively participate” was a poor choice of words on the poster’s part. Regardless, he explained what he meant. You realize, what you called “thoroughly disugsting” is how BXVI celebrates his Masses?

What I call “thoroughly disgusting” is the attitude of one who thinks he is more Catholic than the pope and suggests that one "not actively participate" in the celebration of the Ordinary Form of the Mass because he doesn’t agree with it. One does not actively participate “just a little” or “a whole lot;” we are to love God with our whole heart, our whole mind and our whole soul. If one cannot extend a handshake of peace to his neighbor (CITH is allowed and I have never been approached to hold hands during the Our Father) then I must confess that I am perplexed.

And I highly doubt that Pope Benedict would suggest not participating in those elements that one does not agree with.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

What I call “thoroughly disgusting” is the attitude of one who thinks he is more Catholic than the pope and suggests that one "not actively participate" in the celebration of the Ordinary Form of the Mass because he doesn’t agree with it. One does not actively participate “just a little” or “a whole lot;” we are to love God with our whole heart, our whole mind and our whole soul. If one cannot extend a handshake of peace to his neighbor (CITH is allowed and I have never been approached to hold hands during the Our Father) then I must confess that I am perplexed.

And I highly doubt that Pope Benedict would suggest not participating in those elements that one does not agree with.

Where in his post did he claim to be more Catholic than the Pope? Not participating in the Novus Ordo (Ordinary Form) does not mean one is not a Catholic. The Mass before Vatican II (Traditional Latin Mass) did not have the cheesey hand-shake that is in the Novus Ordo Mass today. If anything is “thoroughly disgusting”, it’s the fact that people extend handshakes to one another in the middle of Mass when their focus should be on the presence of Christ at the altar. Anyone who chooses to attend the Traditional Latin Mass over the Novus Ordo is doing so out of love for God with their whole heart.

 

[franklinf]

What I call “thoroughly disgusting” is the attitude of one who thinks he is more Catholic than the pope and suggests that one "not actively participate" in the celebration of the Ordinary Form of the Mass because he doesn’t agree with it. One does not actively participate “just a little” or “a whole lot;” we are to love God with our whole heart, our whole mind and our whole soul. If one cannot extend a handshake of peace to his neighbor (CITH is allowed and I have never been approached to hold hands during the Our Father) then I must confess that I am perplexed.

And I highly doubt that Pope Benedict would suggest not participating in those elements that one does not agree with.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not partaking in those activities / dressing modestly.

For example, one doesn’t want to engage in the sign of peace pandomonieum because one if focused on Our Lord being present on the Altar (occurs right after the consecration).

Perhaps. But I think he would completely agree with not receiving on the hand and dressing modestly. After all, that is a requirement at his Masses.

 

[ncstevem]

For those who posted earlier.

My wife is from Brazil and had never even heard of the SSPX prior to our marriage. When I explained the situation, she was a bit uncomfortable assisting at Mass at the SSPX chapel near our home. Told her before we were married that I wouldn’t ask her to go if it made her uneasy. We go there on ocassion and she got to know the pastor pretty well who she likes alot. But a deal’s a deal so we go to the diocesan Mass now.

As far as assisting at the NO Mass, I pray the prayers as best I can out of the missal and try not to let the distractions side-track me. I see no problem with reading the missal and praying silently.

From all the things I’ve read, active participation during the Mass means uniting our prayers with prayers of the priest at the altar. Since I can’t actively participate if I’m observing or watching I actively participate by doing what the Church asks laymen to do.

 

[mick321]

What I call “thoroughly disgusting” is the attitude of one who thinks he is more Catholic than the pope and suggests that one "not actively participate" in the celebration of the Ordinary Form of the Mass because he doesn’t agree with it. One does not actively participate “just a little” or “a whole lot;” we are to love God with our whole heart, our whole mind and our whole soul. If one cannot extend a handshake of peace to his neighbor (CITH is allowed and I have never been approached to hold hands during the Our Father) then I must confess that I am perplexed.

And I highly doubt that Pope Benedict would suggest not participating in those elements that one does not agree with.

I highly doubt that Pope Benedict would appreciate you accusing anyone of being “…more Catholic than the pope…”. The Holy Father made it clear that the EF and OF are two usages of the same Roman rite.

No one can require a faithful Catholic to be irreverent, disrespectful, immodest or otherwise disruptive in any Mass, regardless of Form. The proper time for shaking hands, holding hands, hugging and kissing EMHC’s is before or after Mass. Like it or not, the Catholic who silently reads the actual Liturgy of the day - while the celebrant and his ministers frolic around the sanctuary - is fully participating in the Mass.

I didn’t become a Catholic five minutes ago and I’m under no obligation to act like it. My Roman Daily Missal of 1962 accompanies me wherever I go, as does my Rosary. I will not voluntarily enter any place of worship - anywhere in the world - without them.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I have my 1962 Missel with me at Mass. My parish is a OF parish. I get to Mass early and I knell in my pew and I pray the Mass from the 1962 Missel prior to Mass. Also My Latin is not very good I cna say the prayers fairly well In Latin as long as I have them written in front of me. I most always say The Sanctus, and the Agnus Dei in Latin. During the PATER NOSTER I bow my head just prior and flod my hands together, most time no one reaches for it, but if they do I do take it, Maybe I should not, but I feel it is rude not to and does not foster a reverance to to flat out refuse during the Mass.

 

[VetA]

Every pope since Paul VI has celebrated the Ordinary Form of the Mass. To suggest that someone “not actively participate” in that celebration is completely contrary to the duties and practice of a faithful Catholic. And please don’t start with the ad hominem attack chorus; it is a serious thing for an anonymous poster on the internet to " recommend avoiding the OF altogether whenever possible." I’m sure that the Holy Father and those bishops who are united with him would disagree and they are, after all, the legitimate authorities of the Church.

you must be a liberal gentleman eh tim. just because the pope celebrates the OF, that does not mean that the EF is any less valid or relevent. he expained what he meant by activly participate. he is allowed to hold whatever beliefes he wisses to hold, even if that means he prefers the EF, notice he didnt say avoide it at all costs, implying that he would attend if need be.

 

[Tradycja]

I sometimes use the meditations during Mass that are found in the 1927 prayerbook “Blessed Be God” during the Novus Ordo Mass.

 

[VetA]

you must be a liberal gentleman eh tim. just because the pope celebrates the OF, that does not mean that the EF is any less valid or relevent. he expained what he meant by activly participate. he is allowed to hold whatever beliefes he wisses to hold, even if that means he prefers the EF, notice he didnt say avoide it at all costs, implying that he would attend if need be.

i stand by what i said, except for the bold underlined portion, that (in my mind at least) was meant to be an insult and for that i am sorry