"Praying" the Mass; Novus Ordo vs. Traditional Latin Mass

[mattwcu]

Wow, that comes off as totally condescending and totally contrary to what the Pope has stated. Kind of implies that us poor uninformed rubes are just too dumb to know better.

Who said anything about INTELLIGENCE? I was talking about charism and the times. Thats it. I was also talking about God’s mercy to understand the needs and desires of people. In no way did I mean to be condescending, but I guess since this topic is so heated I should have expected it to be read that way.

I should point out that not only to I believe that God’s mercy may use the OF to exist in order to keep people “of the times” in his house but also the EF too for similar reasons.

But I do disagree with you on one point. There should be only 1 Latin Rite. The Council of Trent believed that and so did the Second Vatican Council. It is obviously causing disunity and the descent of this conversation is an example.

 

[ncjohn]

In no way did I mean to be condescending, but I guess since this topic is so heated I should have expected it to be read that way.

I truly wasn’t accusing you of being so. I was merely commenting on the way the wording “came off” given all the noted statements, along with one about the OF being “lacking”. The clear implication of one being “lacking” is that the other is inherently “superior”.

I should point out that not only to I believe that God’s mercy may use the OF to exist in order to keep people “of the times” in his house but also the EF too for similar reasons.

I would totally agree, which is why I was happy when the EF was officially “released” and those who prefer it could have it more readily available. I don’t see that as just being a concession to “…the times” however but a recognition of the different preferences which can be legitimately permitted.

But I do disagree with you on one point. There should be only 1 Latin Rite. The Council of Trent believed that and so did the Second Vatican Council. It is obviously causing disunity and the descent of this conversation is an example.

Just curious if you would then agree with the Council that that rite would not be the EF since it was the clear intention that some revised form was to replace it. And by the way, the Council of Trent did not believe that as it allowed numerous older rites to continue in existence while suppressing other newer local rites.

I don’t think the disunity comes from the existence of the two forms at all. To me much of it comes from the justifiable anger of those whose legitimate preference was denied for too long. I think most of that will dissipate with time as each of us is able to worship in our preferred form. (That may not be totally true for some who just reject the Council outright though and/or have other issues that then get tied in.) I think the rest will also dissipate if appropriate education is done and the Pope continues to clarify that both are equal and acceptable forms so people can get over their superiority complexes and recognize the difference between subjective preference and objective superiority.

Who knows, maybe we will end up with some blended form at some point, or some required parts from the old mixed in with the new to better retain some of what has been lost in some places. As you note, God in His mercy will always provide for our needs…at least if we allow ourselves to keep out of His way.

Peace to you!

 

[ProVobis]

Perhaps that time is passing now that more and more people are again waking up. As Pope Benedict has said he would like the old to enrich the new and vice-versa. We need 1 Latin Rite and essentially we have 2 at the moment.

Actually we have more than 2 if you count all the options available in the OF. You can’t say that you pray EP#1, for example, if you’re offered the EP#2. Maybe it’s the same Mass but it carries a different message. I see this as a real stumbling block within the OF environment. In my opinion, we’d go a long way and just go with EP#1 every Mass.

 

[jeff417]

It seems to me that there is a lot of negativity between those who follow the NO and those who follow the Tridentine. I believe that most of this is misunderstanding, fear, and defensiveness to ones own preferences. I used to be sedevacantist and was taught to fear the NO. Try to remember that all of us are trying to get to heaven and live a Catholic life. We should be more accepting and understanding of our differences. Remember, we have much more in common than we have differences. We pray to the same God, celebrate the same 7 sacraments, and look toward eternal reward in heaven.

God Bless

 

[Lainey63]

It seems to me that there is a lot of negativity between those who follow the NO and those who follow the Tridentine. I believe that most of this is misunderstanding, fear, and defensiveness to ones own preferences. I used to be sedevacantist and was taught to fear the NO. Try to remember that all of us are trying to get to heaven and live a Catholic life. We should be more accepting and understanding of our differences. Remember, we have much more in common than we have differences. We pray to the same God, celebrate the same 7 sacraments, and look toward eternal reward in heaven.

God Bless

I agree with you! The sedevacantists caused me lots of confusion and fear as well. Saying that all who attend the NO are going to hell. During mass we are to have our hearts & minds on God…thanking Him, imploring His Mercy, Adoring Him and Worshipping him…to the best of our abilities…not sit there judging the priest & others within our hearts…one of the requirements set forth by John Paul II was that we are to accept both forms of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…

 

[603304529]

I agree with you! The sedevacantists caused me lots of confusion and fear as well. Saying that all who attend the NO are going to hell. During mass we are to have our hearts & minds on God…thanking Him, imploring His Mercy, Adoring Him and Worshipping him…to the best of our abilities…not sit there judging the priest & others within our hearts…one of the requirements set forth by John Paul II was that we are to accept both forms of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…

Sorry, but when did JP2 stipulate that we are to accept both forms of the Mass? I think Pope Benedict is the first post-conciliar pope to have shown any form of genuine sympathy towards the traditions of the faith.

I find it very difficult during any NO Mass to have my heart and mind set on God. For Pete’s sake - there is a priest up there looking down at us - where’s the focus meant to be???

The traditional Latin Mass TEACHES us our faith. If we KEEP the faith because of our majority attendance at NO Masses, then its pretty safe to say we do it in spite of the Mass… Sorry, but that is the way I see it.

 

[cecilia97]

I attend both the Traditional Latin as well as the Novus Ordo Mass at various parishes. At the Novus Ordo, I never really felt like the Mass was a “prayer”, but rather more like a “ceremonial gathering”.

When I started attending the Traditional Latin Mass the whole idea of “praying” this Mass came naturally to me from the first one I attended. Suddenly the phrase “praying the Mass” made perfect sense to me, maybe because I was more focused on the prayers in the missal than trying to pay attention to the words of the priest.

My question is this: Are we supposed to “pray” the Novus Ordo Mass?

We do at my parish and it is beautiful!

 

[Lainey63]

Sorry, but when did JP2 stipulate that we are to accept both forms of the Mass? I think Pope Benedict is the first post-conciliar pope to have shown any form of genuine sympathy towards the traditions of the faith.

I find it very difficult during any NO Mass to have my heart and mind set on God. For Pete’s sake - there is a priest up there looking down at us - where’s the focus meant to be???

The traditional Latin Mass TEACHES us our faith. If we KEEP the faith because of our majority attendance at NO Masses, then its pretty safe to say we do it in spite of the Mass… Sorry, but that is the way I see it.

Actually, the Srs of Notre Dame and my family who TAUGHT ME AND laid down the foundation of my faith. Don’t get me wrong I do love the TLM-I’ve been going to it for 10 years here in FL. But it was JPII who allowed the TLM-he did recognize that many of the faithful preferred the TLM…and he did say what I posted. Sorry for your troubles.

 

[jkarp]

Seems as if I’m even more confused. If there is no advantage to having the Novus Ordo, why have it at all? And if there is an advantage, why bother to have the old at all? Seems as if this dual maintenance of multiple rites is very costly.

I don’t know, why don’t you ask the Magisterium?

 

[ProVobis]

But it was JPII who allowed the TLM-

Not really, if the TLM had never been abrogated. But we do need to give him credit for keeping the TLM alive.

 

[603304529]

Not really, if the TLM had never been abrogated. But we do need to give him credit for keeping the TLM alive.

What the?? How does do you figure that? I’d say that its the followers of the good Archbishop Lefevbre that have kept the TLM alive. Most others trace their origins back to the SSPX, or where founded because of the SSPX, whether it be in opposition to, or because of some disagreement with.

 

[ProVobis]

What the?? How does do you figure that? I’d say that its the followers of the good Archbishop Lefevbre that have kept the TLM alive. Most others trace their origins back to the SSPX, or where founded because of the SSPX, whether it be in opposition to, or because of some disagreement with.

Of course the SSPX helped. One can also credit Paul VI for extending the “indult” to older priests as well. But that wasn’t the missal of 1961, though.