praying to mary. how to explain??

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Interesting that you should mention that there has to be a need stated in the bible for it to be authentic. Surely you recognize that prayer takes many forms and perhaps you are being too formal in your definition, one prays when one does good, one prays when one helps another, your definition means dedicating the words to God and God alone, which is in itself a wonderful thing. Would you think that Our Lord sees an offense when we petition Mary or the Saints, or would He think it good of us to acknowledge those he loves by honoring them with a petition or prayer. I think God enjoys us so much and loves us so much that we please him when we do any moments of reflection and prayer even if we do not directly mention Him.
 
The praying abilities of the Virgin Mary are probably far superior to that of the average person.
 
St Mary is the first of the saints, and so she is called Queen of Heavenly Saints. So, she is called the first Christian, for as mother of God she bore Christ. She is also first to be canonised a saint by the Holy Synod, and if you read the book of Romans, Chapter 16, Verse 6, interpretation of meaning:

“Pray to Most Holy Ever Virgin Mary, Mother of God, who worked hard among you”

St Mary is not dead but rather we say she fell asleep and she (bodily) ascended to heaven.
???:confused:
 
The whole notion of the saints being dead is not really biblical. Of course, their earthly bodies died, but their souls are eternal. Many protestants overlook the scene of the transfiguration. A couple of questions need to be asked and pondered regarding this miracle. Firstly, why would Jesus be transfigured and need to have Moses and Elijah there. If Jesus is all we need, then why would Jesus need the company of ‘dead’ old testament saints? Secondly, Moses and Elijah were talking with them. Surely this is a text that clearly upholds the communion of saints in the Catholic sense. Moses and Elijah weren’t dead (as we sometimes understand it). Was Jesus conjuring up the spirits of dead people? I think not. Thirdly, I wonder what they were talking about?!!

Oh, and on the book of Maccabees - regardless of whether someone holds these books as canon of scripture, it nevertheless indicates the faith of the Jews at that time. I also believe that when Jesus quoted from the OT he used the Septuagint version which includes the 2 books of Maccabbees, which explicitly spells out prays for the dead and the communion of saints. So if Jesus did not hold these books as the word of God, He should have said something about it.
 
how do i explain to my friend that it is not wrong to pray to the virgin mary?? he says she died like any other person. how can i pray to her if shes not up there with God… everyone dies and will not be in heaven till jesus comes again to judge us. he says that the only people in heaven are of course God and Jesus and enok, elias, and moses.

help??? how do i explain this?
Have your friend explain Jesus on the cross talking to the good thief. "Today, you will be with me in paradice.

If the good thief is in heaven with Jesus, why would anyone else be excluded?

If a repentent thief is in heaven, does he really think that the Mother of God wouldn’t be? I would really be interested in his response.
 
Have your friend explain Jesus on the cross talking to the good thief. "Today, you will be with me in paradice.

If the good thief is in heaven with Jesus, why would anyone else be excluded?

If a repentent thief is in heaven, does he really think that the Mother of God wouldn’t be? I would really be interested in his response.
I hate to change the subject here…but if you believe the thief went to paradise as Jesus said, does this mean he was saved by grace alone as most Protestants believe?

He didn’t have good works or a baptism as Catholics claim are needed.

What are your thoughts on this?
 
I hate to change the subject here…but if you believe the thief went to paradise as Jesus said, does this mean he was saved by grace alone as most Protestants believe?

He didn’t have good works or a baptism as Catholics claim are needed.
Did not the thief speak up in defense of the Lord? If he had not done so, would he still have been “saved”? Would this not have been a form of “work” given his circumstance and limited ability at that point in time?

In order to remain on topic, “pray” is used with Mary or the Saints, it is simply asking them to join in our petitions to God. It is not worship. That is reserved for God.
 
First, I think that you are misinformed about what Catholics “claim”. We believe in baptism of desire. SO, if the good thief had been able to be baptised, he would have. So, he desired it.
BTW, we believe that we are saved by the grace of God. We are not saved by faith or by works. We are saved by grace, and show that through our faith and works.

This is from the CCC on www.usccb.org website. There was just too much good stuff for me to cut it down. I have highlighted what struck me.

1692
The Symbol of the faith confesses the greatness of God’s gifts to man in his work of creation, and even more in redemption and sanctification. What faith confesses, the sacraments communicate: by the sacraments of rebirth, Christians have become "children of God,"2 "partakers of the divine nature."3 Coming to see in the faith their new dignity, Christians are called to lead henceforth a life "worthy of the gospel of Christ."4 They are made capable of doing so by the grace of Christ and the gifts of his Spirit, which they receive through the sacraments and through prayer.1693
Christ Jesus always did what was pleasing to the Father,5 and always lived in perfect communion with him. Likewise Christ’s disciples are invited to live in the sight of the Father "who sees in secret,"6 in order to become "perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."7

1694
Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, Christians are “dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus” and so participate in the life of the Risen Lord.8 Following Christ and united with him,9 Christians can strive to be "imitators of God as beloved children, and walk in love"10 by conforming their thoughts, words and actions to the "mind . . . which is yours in Christ Jesus,"11 and by following his example.12

1695
"Justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God,"13 "sanctified . . . [and] called to be saints,"14 Christians have become the temple of the Holy Spirit.15 This “Spirit of the Son” teaches them to pray to the Father16 and, having become their life, prompts them to act so as to bear "the fruit of the Spirit"17 by charity in action. Healing the wounds of sin, the Holy Spirit renews us interiorly through a spiritual transformation.18 He enlightens and strengthens us to live as “children of light” through "all that is good and right and true."19

1696
The way of Christ “leads to life”; a contrary way "leads to destruction."20 The Gospel parable of the two ways remains ever present in the catechesis of the Church; it shows the importance of moral decisions for our salvation: "There are two ways, the one of life, the other of death; but between the two, there is a great difference."21
1697
Catechesis has to reveal in all clarity the joy and the demands of the way of Christ.22 Catechesis for the "newness of life"23 in him should be:

a catechesis of the Holy Spirit, the interior Master of life according to Christ, a gentle guest and friend who inspires, guides, corrects, and strengthens this life;

a catechesis of grace, for it is by grace that we are saved and again it is by grace that our works can bear fruit for eternal life;

a catechesis of the beatitudes, for the way of Christ is summed up in the beatitudes, the only path that leads to the eternal beatitude for which the human heart longs;

a catechesis of sin and forgiveness, for unless man acknowledges that he is a sinner he cannot know the truth about himself, which is a condition for acting justly; and without the offer of forgiveness he would not be able to bear this truth;

a catechesis of the human virtues which causes one to grasp the beauty and attraction of right dispositions towards goodness;

a catechesis of the Christian virtues of faith, hope, and charity, generously inspired by the example of the saints;

a catechesis of the twofold commandment of charity set forth in the Decalogue;

an ecclesial catechesis, for it is through the manifold exchanges of “spiritual goods” in the “communion of saints” that Christian life can grow, develop, and be communicated.

1698
The first and last point of reference of this catechesis will always be Jesus Christ himself, who is "the way, and the truth, and the life."24 It is by looking to him in faith that Christ’s faithful can hope that he himself fulfills his promises in them, and that, by loving him with the same love with which he has loved them, they may perform works in keeping with their dignity:

I ask you to consider that our Lord Jesus Christ is your true head, and that you are one of his members. He belongs to you as the head belongs to its members; all that is his is yours: his spirit, his heart, his body and soul, and all his faculties. You must make use of all these as of your own, to serve, praise, love, and glorify God. You belong to him, as members belong to their head. And so he longs for you to use all that is in you, as if it were his own, for the service and glory of the Father.25

For to me, to live is Christ.26

Notes
  1. Jn 1:12; 1 Jn 3:1.
  2. 2 Pet 1:4.
  3. Phil 1:27.
  4. Cf. Jn 8:29.
  5. Mt 6:6.
  6. Mt 5:48.
  7. Rom 6:11 and cf. 6:5; cf. Col 2:12.
  8. Cf. Jn 15:5.
  9. Eph 5:1-2.
  10. Phil 2:5.
  11. Cf. Jn 13:12-16.
  12. 1 Cor 6:11.
  13. 1 Cor 1:2.
  14. Cf. 1 Cor 6:19.
  15. Cf. Gal 4:6.
  16. Gal 5:22, 25.
  17. Cf. Eph 4:23.
  18. Eph 5:8, 9.
  19. Mt 7:13; cf. Deut 30:15-20.
  20. Didache 1, 1: SCh 248, 140.
  21. Cf. John Paul II, CT 29.
  22. Rom 6:4.
  23. Jn 14:6.
  24. St. John Eudes, Tract. de admirabili corde Jesu, 1, 5.
  25. Phil 1:21.
 
Have your friend explain Jesus on the cross talking to the good thief. "Today, you will be with me in paradice.
***Friend your suggestions points out a weakness in self interpetiation of the bible.

What Jesus said could not have been literally true until He rose fromt he dead some three days in the [then] furture and made heaven a POSSIBILITY. Of further note and on theological refelection, the “good thief” showed sincere repentance, and “confessed his sins” before Christ forgave him.

PLEASE See Mt. 16:19; 1 John 5: 16-17 Mt. 18:18; and Luke 13:3 ***
If the good thief is in heaven with Jesus, why would anyone else be excluded?
**Because as is necessary for everyone he repented and confessed. Look up the above quotes and the following quote IF YOU REALLY WANT THE BIBLICAL TRUTH; what Christ actually teaches!?

[Lk. 8:11-15; Rom. 1:24-25; Rom. 2:13-16; Heb.10:26-27 on confession and consequences of sin]**

And Jn. 3:5; Jn. 3:36; Mt. 19:16, Lk. 9: 23-24; Mt. 4:17; Acts 3:19; Acts 17: 30" The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent,
If a repentent thief is in heaven, does he really think that the Mother of God wouldn’t be? I would really be interested in his response.
Good point:thumbsup:
 
…but that is just the point. No Catholic “prays to Mary” but rather asks Mary to pray for him.
Don’t tell me Brooke asked the question and I agreed with you but like I said it was a specific question “pray to Mary”
My personal possission is I, me don’t pray to anyone except to God. You can pray to anyone you want to pray to but I didn’t ask the question.
 
You are ohh so wrong sir.

When Jacob Was wrestling with God, and finally cezied he saw angels taking up prayers to heaven. It was implied then that Angels did this.
The main word is implied- mean , involve, suggest, connote, hint, mention,indicate,insinuate.source-websters dictionary
 
I hate to change the subject here…but if you believe the thief went to paradise as Jesus said, does this mean he was saved by grace alone as most Protestants believe?

He didn’t have good works or a baptism as Catholics claim are needed.

What are your thoughts on this?
Luke 23:32-43
as this man was about to die, he turned to Chrsit for forgiveness, and Christ forgave him. This showes that our deeds don’t save us our faith in Christ does. Its never too late to turn to God.
the dying criminal had more faith than the rest of Jesus’ folowers put together.
source-life apaolication study bible
 
Its Leftbehindable
Code:
  Pax friend
Steve, Steve, Steve, prove it wrong. How do you know. I never make fun of your answers. I have justified them and gave you the soueces. lets keep it civilized, ok.
 
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