Praying to Mary?

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Della said:
Forgive me, but I don’t think we can say we are done until we drag into the light some of the reasons for rejecting Marian teachings. 😉

The more cerbral reasons:
  1. The reasons already given about Church authority.
  2. Unfamiliarity with Church teaching resulting in mistrust of Church teaching.
  3. Misinformation about Church teaching.
The emotional/spiritual reasons:
  1. Fear sent from the infernal regions to dissuade the soul from accepting Mary.
  2. Envy of Mary’s uniqueness in God’s plan of salvaiton. The whining objection, such as: “Why didn’t God keep us all free from original sin?”
  3. Willful rejection based in hatred of all things Catholic more that learned bias.
Of course we cannot know who has simple misunderstandings and who willfully rejects Mary due to hatred of all things Catholic, so it’s not for us to judge. Not even when we think we know because only God can know the depths of the human heart.
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it reminds me - a quote of fulton sheen about hating the church.
 
friardchips said:
I agree with your post. All excellent points and relative to this thread. By ‘done’, I was referring to something you requested I do! 🙂
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Again I misunderstood. 😊 Wow, I need to see a good doctor. 😛
Yes, many different reasons.
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My examples were broad categories that I’ve experienced in person and posting on CAF. Each person may have a mixture of any or all of them. God’s grace can break through such objections, of course, and bring enlightenment to any who are willing to see.
Maybe the Ordinariate will bridge some gaps!
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It no doubt already has. I also think that when the Anglicans vote for women bishops it will drive some who are now on the fence into the Ordinariate. I’d love to see a Lutheran Ordinariate–and perhaps others, as well. There is much more we have in common with our separated brethren than not that I can see it coming, in God’s good time. Only those ecclesial bodies who are in total denial of their connections to the Catholic Church might remain outside. And they are the ones who are the most vehement against anything Marian–to bring us back to the topic at hand. 🙂
 
Della said:
Again I misunderstood. 😊 Wow, I need to see a good doctor. 😛

My examples were broad categories that I’ve experienced in person and posting on CAF. Each person may have a mixture of any or all of them. God’s grace can break through such objections, of course, and bring enlightenment to any who are willing to see.

It no doubt already has. I also think that when the Anglicans vote for women bishops it will drive some who are now on the fence into the Ordinariate. I’d love to see a Lutheran Ordinariate–and perhaps others, as well. There is much more we have in common with our separated brethren than not that I can see it coming, in God’s good time. Only those ecclesial bodies who are in total denial of their connections to the Catholic Church might remain outside. And they are the ones who are the most vehement against anything Marian–to bring us back to the topic at hand. 🙂
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icam
 
Della said:
Again I misunderstood. 😊 Wow, I need to see a good doctor. 😛
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Don’t worry, I’m not being clear. My fault.
My examples were broad categories that I’ve experienced in person and posting on CAF. Each person may have a mixture of any or all of them. God’s grace can break through such objections, of course, and bring enlightenment to any who are willing to see.
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That is the thing. The willingness to see. And oftentimes people need proof, like St. Thomas. The greater the need in the world, and the separation, the more responsibility is on the shoulders of Catholics. But what we need to keep doing is letting God help us.
It no doubt already has. I also think that when the Anglicans vote for women bishops it will drive some who are now on the fence into the Ordinariate. I’d love to see a Lutheran Ordinariate–and perhaps others, as well. There is much more we have in common with our separated brethren than not that I can see it coming, in God’s good time. Only those ecclesial bodies who are in total denial of their connections to the Catholic Church might remain outside. And they are the ones who are the most vehement against anything Marian–to bring us back to the topic at hand. 🙂
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I think what Pope B did was amazing. Bridges everywhere, like neurological pathways in our brains, they connect! But I think Mary has a lot more to do with it. It follows that if Christ was and is the stumbling block for the majority then His holy Mother who raised Him will also be. I wonder whether the bridges of difference occur because of the honour people are to show her. For example, how many wives did Henry VIII have? How little appreciation did the founder of the Anglican Church show for the dignity of women? I think that praying to Mary is an issue not so much because of all these other differences but because of Satan being terrified of Mary. And the more the rosary can be introduced to other branches of Christianity then these bridges will be built. After all, did Mary not advise us to pray the rosary and again the Fatima prayer included.

My invite to you stands by the way - it was your idea! 😃
 
Faxero said:
:cool: According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Both Saints Alive and MarianCatholic are correct.

2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church.** When we pray to her**, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus’ mother into our homes,39 for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope.40 <----- emphasis added
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c2a2.htm

Based off of the above text, I’d say that there is a difference between praying *to *Mary and praying *with *Mary. Perhaps SaintsAlive prays with Mary, while MarianCatholic prayers to Mary…? Her passionate reply to post #2 suggests she does so most zealously.
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Thank you 🙂
 
MarianCatholic said:
This has to be ecumenical talk, isnt it?
Of course we pray TO Mary just take a closer look at the Hail Holy Queen prayer:

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve: to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus, O merciful, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! Amen.

Especially the bobled text support that we do pray to her.
in my mind there is really no doubt that we pray to her and I among lots of others are praying to her in my own words as well (personal prayer).

And why, WHY I ask is praying to her wrong??
Its highly encouraged and recommended to have a strong attachment to Mary as she leads us to Christ in a very unic way that isnt obtainable without her.
Also she is our mother so comunicating with her, speaking with her and to let her partake in our lives is both natural and crucial for us as Catholics.

I know this topic has run its course several times at this forum already, but I just cant see how one can back up the “Not praying to” mindset.

Anyhow, its not like the church herself forces you to be close to The Holy Virgin, but she is the churchs mother and not to venerate her is certainly to make your life as a faithful alot harder.

Yours in Jesus and Mary
  • MarianCatholic
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Well, the bolded part indicates we are talking to her or petitioning her.

Sure, Catholics can use the term “praying to Mary” loosely, but there are many folks who believe we should only pray to The Holy Trinity.

The Memorare invites us to ask the Blessed Mother for her assistance and her grace, especially when we feel most troubled in our daily lives.
ourcatholicprayers.com/memorare.html

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.

This short article by the late Fr John Hardon + pretty much sums up my understanding of Marian devotion…
therealpresence.org/archives/Mariology/Mariology_013.htm

An excerpt : “** The one who is devoted to Mary thinks of her, reads about her, talks about her, speaks to her, invokes her and tries to imitate her.**”
 
Fr Serpa offered a great answer…
Begin where you feel comfortable. Certainly, when seeking Mary’s help, she will pray with you and lead you to her Son. Going directly to Jesus, the perfect Mediator since He is God and Man is the ultimate.
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First and formost, I personally pray to Him through His Eucharistic Presence in the tabernacle and daily thank Him for Good Friday. I ask the prayers of Mary and St. Dominic when moved to do so. Let the Spirit guide you. Let the memory of His suffering and death on the cross inbue your whole day and you will be fine.
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Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
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forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2483578&postcount=2
 
Blain1 said:
I was just wondering why pray to Mary? And who is Mary to the Catholic community?
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The teaching of Jesus and Mary are very important and are very well connected. Some people go to Jesus through Mary and some people go to Mary though Jesus. What is your way? I go to Mary through Jesus. I exemplify more the Eastern Orthodox way. The Catholic tends to go through the other way that is to Jesus through Mary. It is easy to understand. You are either built (within the Catholic Church or the Orthodox/Eastern Church) to follow one way or the other. The problem with me was I had grown up first Catholic before Orthodox. I was an Orthodox baptised person who grew up first Catholic. The Catholic way of going to Jesus through Mary did not work for me. It had helped a lot of people but it was not the way for me. When I had discovered my Orthodox Christian baptism at 28 years old I wanted to learn about a Church I had not known so I began to search my Orthodox roots. It was here in the Orthodox Church I had discovered another way which complimented the Catholic way but it was done if one can say the opposite way. It was in the Orthodox Church I had learned the way that I was more inclined to. It was to go to Mary through Jesus. It was in the Eastern Church I had seen another face that was different than the one I had grown up with. Let me explain.

The face of Mary is seen more in the Catholic Church and the face of Jesus is seen more in the Orthodox and Eastern Church. When one is in the Catholic Church seeing more the face of Mary one is drawn into the face of Jesus. When one is in the Orthodox Church seeing more the face of Jesus one is drawn into the face of Mary. I am more drawn to evangelise the way of the Orthodox Church sees Mary. I speak fluently about Jesus. Yet behind this evangelism you can be drawn to Mary. For another person they speak fluently about Mary and through this evangelism be drawn into Jesus. Our two great Churches Catholic and the Orthodox and Eastern uses different yet complimentary and powerful approaches to achieve the same effect and what is that? To know Jesus and Mary! It is essential for us to know both Jesus and Mary. Mary can lead us to Jesus and Jesus can lead us to His Mother. It gives us a healthier perspective to get to know both.

The presence of both Jesus and Mary are to give to us this incredible truth about the witness of what the Lord Jesus and His Mother can be to our lives. The incredible truth is we need both of them for this healthy spiritual balance within our lives. Yet for some it is Jesus through Mary and in others it is Mary through Jesus as it is accomplished within the Catholic and Orthodox/Eastern Churches.
 
Cardinal John Henry Newman In Defense of Mary’s Honor
“I consider it impossible then, for those who believe the Church to be one vast body in heaven and on earth, in which every holy creature of God has his place, and of which prayer is the life, when once they recognize the sanctity and dignity of the Blessed Virgin, not to perceive immediately, that her office above is one of perpetual intercession for the faithful militant, and that our very relation to her must be that of clients to a patron, and that, in the eternal enmity which exists between the woman and the serpent, while the serpent’s strength lies in being the Tempter, the weapon of the Second Eve and Mother of God is prayer.”
From:
“Letter to Pusey” in Difficulties of Anglicans (1907)
It has been justly called a “masterpiece of Marian literature,” which deserves to be better known not only as a revelation of Newman’s own love for Our Lady, but as a source book of apologetics to defend our Catholic devotion to the Mother of God.
 
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