Praying to Mary

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First of all, hi. My name is Ralph and I am new to these forums. I’m 16 years old and I want to learn more about my religion.

My friend and I had a pretty long discussion about the differences behind our religions. He is non-denominational and claims that he has a relationship with God. He asked me why Catholics pray to Mary. He told me that Mary was nothing special and was merely a vessel for that God chose to birth His son Jesus Christ. Now I havent read the bible, but I would like to know if this is true. And if it is, why do we pray to Mary?
 
Hi Ralph, welcome to Catholic Answers Forum. Congratulations on your decision to learn more about your Faith.

A good site to bookmark is scripturecatholic.com/index.html which gives Scriptural reasons for Catholic beliefs. You can find out reasons why we pray to Mary at scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#tradition-VI

Basically, it is because she is such a powerful intercessor before God. If you had something important you wanted God to do for you, and you asked some friends to pray for you, you would ask the holiest people you know, wouldn’t you? That’s Mary.

One of the difficulties non-Catholic Christians face is that they don’t really believe the dead are alive in heaven. Catholics, on the other hand have been praying/asking for help from Mary and the saints ever since the time of the apostles, as we see from the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

A great place to learn about the Faith is here trueteaching.net/ There are a series of talks you can download and listen to.
 
First of all, hi. My name is Ralph and I am new to these forums. I’m 16 years old and I want to learn more about my religion.

My friend and I had a pretty long discussion about the differences behind our religions. He is non-denominational and claims that he has a relationship with God. He asked me why Catholics pray to Mary. He told me that Mary was nothing special and was merely a vessel for that God chose to birth His son Jesus Christ. Now I havent read the bible, but I would like to know if this is true. And if it is, why do we pray to Mary?
Hey dylkow, welcome.

It comes down to getting our definitions straight.
What do we catholics mean when we say pray?
Pray means to ask.
So when we pray to Mary “pray for us sinners”. we are asking her to ask God to help us.
Just as if your friend had a big test coming up and right before he said, “Pray for me!”
He asking you to ask God (for help) for him.
He is asking you to intercede for him( to be a type of mediator or middleman).
We Catholic believe Mary was given a special priveledge to mediate on our behalf so we ASK her to ASK God for us.
If you have a chance the Gospel of John ch 2 starts with The Wedding at Cana-in this story Mary is acting as mediatrix(special mediator) on behalf of the couple (bride/groom).
Hope this helps -Good luck.
 
A lot of Evangelicals and non-denominational people think that pray means the same thing as worship. Now the dictionary might say that they do mean the same thing, but the dictionary isn’t a theology book, nor does it tell us what the Catholic Church means when it uses the word pray vs. Evangelicals.

When a Catholic uses the word pray he means “to ask” or “to intercede” and this intercession is merely the same kind as asking any person to pray for us and is not at all the same thing as Jesus’ intercession which is a special intercession that satisifies God’s justice. Only the one sacrifice of Jesus, offered on the altar satisfies God’s justice–for our sins.

In the Catholic Church worship means to offer a sacrifice, not merely to pray (ask for help/intercession). And the only sacrifice the Catholic Church offers is the one sacrifice of Christ in the Mass and no others. No Catholic offers sacrifice to Mary or anyone else, only to God and then only the one sacrifice of Jesus.
 
One of the difficulties non-Catholic Christians face is that they don’t really believe the dead are alive in heaven.

You are very misinformed about Protestant belief. I’m Methodist and we most definitely DO believe the dead are alive in Heaven. Where did you pick up this idea?
 
Mary was very special! God didn’t choose Elizabeth, or some woman named Judith, or anybody else to bear His unique firstborn, Jesus! God specifically had Mary in mind when He planned the Incarnation of Christ Jesus.

Not only this, but when the Angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she will bear the unique Son of God, he says, “Hail, full of grace!” Not only did he greet Mary, a common 14-year old peasant girl (at the time) in the manner one might greet someone of regal status, like a king or queen, but he calls her “full of grace”! To be full of grace is truly one of the most exceptional gifts God could give to any man or woman, and Mary received it firsthand!

If Mary achieved this unique status while alive on Earth, since we know that she and all the saints are alive in Christ in heaven, doesn’t it make since that we ask her for prayers? She’s the one human being in ALL THE WORLD in the history of the world to have such a close, intimate connection with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. When she prays for us, we know for certain that God will listen - just how we heed the voices of our own mothers when she asks something of us!
 
A lot of Evangelicals and non-denominational people think that pray means the same thing as worship. Now the dictionary might say that they do mean the same thing, but the dictionary isn’t a theology book, nor does it tell us what the Catholic Church means when it uses the word pray vs. Evangelicals.

When a Catholic uses the word pray he means “to ask” or “to intercede” and this intercession is merely the same kind as asking any person to pray for us and is not at all the same thing as Jesus’ intercession which is a special intercession that satisifies God’s justice. Only the one sacrifice of Jesus, offered on the altar satisfies God’s justice–for our sins.

In the Catholic Church worship means to offer a sacrifice, not merely to pray (ask for help/intercession). And the only sacrifice the Catholic Church offers is the one sacrifice of Christ in the Mass and no others. No Catholic offers sacrifice to Mary or anyone else, only to God and then only the one sacrifice of Jesus.
AMEN!
I’ve also understood worship to mean keeping someone or something most important in one’s life. As Catholics we keep God #1 in everything and it takes more than prayer to do it. In this way, if one holds something like his money more important than God then he is not worshipping God when he prays. So the same should go for any prayers to Mary or the Saints.
 
Some Protestants do think that the dead are sleeping both in body and soul, and thus can’t hear or sense anything going on. But that is certainly not true of all Protestants or even most.

dylkow’s friend seems to be more convinced that Mary’s just some chick, you know? 🙂
 
As a baptist converting to Catholcism, this did it for me.

At the wedding feast at Cana, they ran out of wine. Mary went to Jesus and explained the situation, “They have no more wine.” Jesus replied, “Woman, why do you involve me? My time has not yet come.” Jesus’ mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

We all know that Jesus seemed to change his mind and did what his mother asked, and performed his first miracle making wine from water.

God commanded us all to honor our fathers and mothers. Aren’t we sure with Jesus being full man as well as God, does the same and honors his mother? Jesus listened to his mother when she interceded for the wedding couple, as Mary was concerned they would be embarrassed with running out of wine.

I believe that Christ is in heaven and sits at the right hand of The Father. And I also believe that Mary, the Mother of God, is at the right hand (or nearby) of her Son, Jesus Christ. What better person to have intercede for you than Christ’s own mother? We all know from the scriptures that Jesus listens to her.

Yes, we all could pray directly to Christ, and we should. But to be so arrogant to think that we on earth have more pull with Christ than His own mother who is with Him in heaven is just foolishness and pride.

So when we pray to Mary, we are simply asking for her intercession.

Yes, some cradle Catholics out of not being properly taught and not properly raised in the faith take this too far. But humans are not perfect and in every aspect of life, some take things too far. Mary, the Mother of God, is NOT a God. She was as human as any of us. But our Heavenly Father chose her among all women who have lived, are living and who shall live to be the vessel of our Lord Jesus Christ. She deserves our respects and devotions.

Keep one thing in mind when praying the rosary or other prayers to Mary for her intercessions. Your hopes is that she takes your intentions to Jesus. And I can personally testify that by praying the rosary daily, then when needing her intercession, she does hear our requests and takes them to Christ.
 
He asked me why Catholics pray to Mary. He told me that Mary was nothing special and was merely a vessel for that God chose to birth His son Jesus Christ.
This kind of goes against the biblical recognition of Mary’s unique place:
Luke 1:46-48:
And Mary said: "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior. For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
 
First of all, hi. My name is Ralph and I am new to these forums. I’m 16 years old and I want to learn more about my religion.
Hi Ralph,
Be prepared for a lifetime of learning.
My friend and I had a pretty long discussion about the differences behind our religions. He is non-denominational and claims that he has a relationship with God. He asked me why Catholics pray to Mary. He told me that Mary was nothing special and was merely a vessel for that God chose to birth His son Jesus Christ. Now I havent read the bible, but I would like to know if this is true. And if it is, why do we pray to Mary?
You have had many good responses here already. One I don’t think I’ve seen yet is also a very simple one. The vessels God uses are important, and when you do read the bible you will likely discover that. In the sense of the vessel your friend refers to are humans. Some human vessels had to go through trials and tribulations to be ready to carry out what God had asked them too. Moses is a good example.

Other non-human vessels like the Ark of the Covenant and the original Temple were constructed to exacting detail and though not worshiped themselves, are held in high regard by the faithfull because of what they signify. Mary was a vessel seemingly ready for her role to bear the Son of God, which in light of how difficult it is to be so pure, is remarkable.

The veneration of Mary is acknowledging that fact.

Some parables you might wan to read are about putting new wine into old wine skins, and using a new cloth to patch an old cloak are appropriate.
 
I was a Protestant who was raised with the idea that Mary was really just another woman who simply fulfilled her duty to God.

God ordered, Mary obeyed, end of. Toddle off now Mary.

I remember talking about it with a Catholic friend of mine and I remember the look of horror on her face when I said “Mary is just another woman” (nevermind how sexist that sounds anyway).

Even before I chose to enter RCIA I studied Catholicism and could see that there was something really wrong with this view. Mary is the Theotokos. Could God have picked someone else? Yes. But he did not. He picked Mary. He sent his messenger to greet her and say: Ave María, grátia plena, Dóminus tecum. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

You won’t find such a greeting anywhere else and to anyone else. More than that, we can learn from Mary how to be exceptional followers of Christ.

As Catholics we reserve worship or latria for God, the Holy Trinity. We have dulia or veneration, or honour, for the saints. And Mary reserves the special category of hyperdulia which simply means that she is honoured above the saints. In no way is she or any other human or object to ever receive latria or worship, which is rightly reserved only for God.
 
Hey everyone. I want to thank each and every one of you to help me get the picture. Me and my friend have these discussions but I always feel like I’m not contributing to the conversation because I’m not as well informed as I should be. Thank you again and expect more questions from me!
 
One more thought, the idea that Mary was “merely a vessel” somehow smacks of God turning Our Lady into a baby-making machine. You know, like once she was done bearing Jesus, her job was done, she could be discarded like a snake skin or something.

I always find this notion interesting when coming from people who accuse Holy Mother Church of treating women nowadays in the exact same way (which it doesn’t). We’re to assume that turning common women into baby making machines is bad (which it clearly is), but to be “ok” with the thought that this is what God Allmighty did to Mary, the mother of the Incarnation? :rolleyes:

Anyway, one more monkey wrench you can throw into your next conversation with your friend.

C
 
If God glorifies the saints in heaven, we should glorify them too from earth. (The Bible says God glorifies the saints in heaven)
 
In all of this discussion, what I kind of find as odd is the idea
that Mary did not excercise free will as the Mother of God.
God always allows us to excercise our free will. Mary
said YES! The most glorious,courageous, faith filled
yes in the world. She wasn’t an incubator, some machine, some
container. She was a teenager that consented to the most
awesome choice ever. No Mary. No Jesus.:harp: :angel1: :bowdown: :bowdown: : :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :dancing: :dancing:
 
In all of this discussion, what I kind of find as odd is the idea
that Mary did not excercise free will as the Mother of God.
God always allows us to excercise our free will. Mary
said YES! The most glorious,courageous, faith filled
yes in the world. She wasn’t an incubator, some machine, some
container. She was a teenager that consented to the most
awesome choice ever. No Mary. No Jesus
I had to prove that to my Protestant mother, as well! For 50-some years, she was laboring under the shocking belief that Our Lady had no decision in the matter whatsoever. :eek:
 
In all of this discussion, what I kind of find as odd is the idea that Mary did not excercise free will as the Mother of God.
God always allows us to excercise our free will. Mary
said YES! The most glorious,courageous, faith filled
yes in the world. She wasn’t an incubator, some machine, some
container. She was a teenager that consented to the most
awesome choice ever. No Mary. No Jesus
Very well said seek!

Mary made a decision that, as I understand it, was not easy. I believe that the law could have had her killed for being pregnant before her marriage.

Another view, that I did not consider until now, if Mary did not have a real choice, would that not imply that the Holy Spirit erm…came into her without consent?

I don’t think God works in quite that way.
 
Catholics worship Mary
No We don’t
Yes you do
No We don’t
Yes you do…etc.

That accusation can be easily flattened.

Catholics love Mary as a human being, as a mother. They feel quite free to “call her blessed” (Luke 1.48) with a “loud voice,” (Luke 1.41), just as the Holy Spirit instructed (same passage).

For those who say Mary is dead and can’t hear it, I have some words straight from the mouth of Jesus–“God is God of the Living, NOT of the Dead.”

If Moses and Elijah put in an appearance on Mount Tabor and chatted with Jesus about his ministry (as Scripture records), then I’d highly posit that these men were “in the know” through God’s power and not “dead.” Moreover, if the martyrs beneath the altar in the book of Revelation (6:9-11) are appealing to God about things going on across the earth and asking God when he was going to take action, then I’d highly posit that they are NOT dead, either.

Really: to “worship” Mary would require that the intellect makes a firm decision to believe that Mary is Divine or that she created the world. Even the most uneducated catholic, I believe, does not make that kind of intellectual decision. Thus, Mary cannot be worshipped unless a person claims, with full intellect, that she is divine. Case closed.

Otherwise, Mary is loved and appreciated with the same sort of devotion one renders to one’s own beloved mother, for example. Jesus doesn’t get “jealous” or “green with envy” when we “love” our own mothers. There’s no passage in Scripture that forbids us to “love” his own Mother, who was explicitly given to christians as their own mother, as well.

Protestants often make the grave mistake of treating Mary as if she were a mere “vessel” – which is the same thing as saying she was a Petrie Dish that God used and threw away. They also often make the mistake of believing that God “woke-up” one day, yawned, decided it was time to “send his Son to earth,” and then started looking, at random, for the proper “gal” to serve as a temporary incubator.

It is written that God knows each of us from the very moment of conception…“from the womb”…and that God has a plan and mission for each of us and prepares us according to our free will and cooperation with his grace.

God didn’t just “pick” Mary out of some Galileean “line-up.” She was destined, prepared, and graced to be the MOTHER of the Divine Word. Not a temporary “holding-tank.” She gave human nature to the utter, omnipotent “DIVINE,” according to her free will, faith, and cooperation–even to the point of possibly losing her own life, her husband, and her entire world.

Mary’s faith was the ‘contact point’ for the greatest event that ever happened in this universe or any other, the greatest miracle in that thing we humans call “time”-- the Divine becomes part of matter, part of the material “existence.” It gives me the shivers simply to think about the astonishing, mind-blowing reality of it. And Protestant literalists so often toss Mary aside the way they foolishly think that God “tossed her aside” after demanding temporary use of her reproductive organs.

She raised him. Educated him. Nursed him. Shared her own faith with him. LIVED with Jesus for 30 years as mother first in faith, and THEN in flesh. Her grace (given lavishly by God: Luke 1.28) and her free response to that saving grace, made it possible for all of humanity (and creation) to be redeemed by Jesus. It was the greatest “collaborative effort” that could ever possibly be effected or even imagined, through all ages, all times, all places, all possibilities.

Also, if Protestants want to bully Catholics for having sacred artwork, then they had best be prepared to throw their Bibles into the garbage cans. Why? Because every single letter, on every single page, in every single Bible in the world, is an IMAGE. It’s created “material” of ink, made by human beings. Every letter. Do these letter-images convey truth and inspiration? Yes. Just as sacred art does. Protestants should also be ready to throw-out all of their family photo-albums and cherished “films.” All are images.

But some Protestants have a valid point about excessive displays of “reverence” paid by Catholics to statues, pictures, et al. I would personally prefer to see sacred Christian art “considered” rather than “fussed-over.” Statuary and icons may be cherished and revered as material things representing and conveying truths that inspire and teach us, or lift our minds to the Divine (just as the ink letter-IMAGES of scripture do), but I find no point in dressing statues in gowns or jewels and grovelling before them. Christian art can be properly revered without such excess.

We need to pray for vocations, but we need to inspire vocations, too–in proper candidates. This takes a community–from the family to the entire parish.
 
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