Praying to Saints... (Again)

[MikiBee]

I asked this question in the “Ask an Apologist” section and never got an answer. When I read the canned replies and skim the archives, they don’t answer my specific question either.

I firmly believe it’s A-OK to pray to saints for intercession, just as it’s okay for me to ask you to pray for me. However, my problem with this is when the prayers go beyond intercession, and actually make requests directly to the saints. I have seen some people post parts of the Prayer to St. Michael in their sig line and that got me to thinking about this:

St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil…

There are other prayers that ask for direct help from a saint, and I always thought that was sinful. I know asking for intercession is okay, but like I said, I thought praying directly to a saint for help was wrong.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks,
Michelle

 

[crazzeto]

I asked this question in the “Ask an Apologist” section and never got an answer. When I read the canned replies and skim the archives, they don’t answer my specific question either.

I firmly believe it’s A-OK to pray to saints for intercession, just as it’s okay for me to ask you to pray for me. However, my problem with this is when the prayers go beyond intercession, and actually make requests directly to the saints. I have seen some people post parts of the Prayer to St. Michael in their sig line and that got me to thinking about this:

St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil…

There are other prayers that ask for direct help from a saint, and I always thought that was sinful. I know asking for intercession is okay, but like I said, I thought praying directly to a saint for help was wrong.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks,
Michelle

Well in terms of St. Michael, he literally lead God’s armies against Satan durring the original rebellion. But in general, I would say when we use this phraseology, it’s with the subtext that we are asking for prayerful intercession. We are, in no way, suggesting that the Saints in and of them selves (i.e. with out God) have the power to do anything.

 

[bookgirl32]

I asked this question in the “Ask an Apologist” section and never got an answer. When I read the canned replies and skim the archives, they don’t answer my specific question either.

I firmly believe it’s A-OK to pray to saints for intercession, just as it’s okay for me to ask you to pray for me. However, my problem with this is when the prayers go beyond intercession, and actually make requests directly to the saints. I have seen some people post parts of the Prayer to St. Michael in their sig line and that got me to thinking about this:

St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil…

There are other prayers that ask for direct help from a saint, and I always thought that was sinful. I know asking for intercession is okay, but like I said, I thought praying directly to a saint for help was wrong.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks,
Michelle

How is it any different than the Angel of God? We know that the duty God gives gaurdian angels is to protect us. So asking them to protect us is not asking them to be God, but to do what we know God made them to do, which is to help Him protect us. Same with St. Michael. That we don’t know how exactly they are protecting us (who knows, I’m sure prayer is a part of it) isn’t for us to worry about.

If you ask someone to pray for you, they have to agree and then do it, they have free will. They are in control of whether or not they do it. So when you ask them to pray, they (as God would want them to, of course) “grant” you that prayer.

 

[MikiBee]

Okay, I realize that I made a mistake with that particular prayer. I get confused with St. Michael being called both a saint and an angel. I don’t know how one could be both.

So for example, wouldn’t it be bad to pray to a patron saint asking for direct aid… say asking St. Christopher to keep us safe on our travels? Shouldn’t we ask St. Christoper to pray for our safe travels? To appeal to God for our safe travels? What power does St. Christopher have on his own that we would pray to him directly for his aid?

 

[crazzeto]

Okay, I realize that I made a mistake with that particular prayer. I get confused with St. Michael being called both a saint and an angel. I don’t know how one could be both.

So for example, wouldn’t it be bad to pray to a patron saint asking for direct aid… say asking St. Christopher to keep us safe on our travels? Shouldn’t we ask St. Christoper to pray for our safe travels? To appeal to God for our safe travels? What power does St. Christopher have on his own that we would pray to him directly for his aid?

Nope, because what you’re really asking the Saint to do is to Pray for you for that end. This is how the Saint will respond, and in this context God will answer your prayer in a manner which is best for you (i.e. some times that answer isn’t what you thought/hoped it would be).

 

[bookgirl32]

Okay, I realize that I made a mistake with that particular prayer. I get confused with St. Michael being called both a saint and an angel. I don’t know how one could be both.

So for example, wouldn’t it be bad to pray to a patron saint asking for direct aid… say asking St. Christopher to keep us safe on our travels? Shouldn’t we ask St. Christoper to pray for our safe travels? To appeal to God for our safe travels? What power does St. Christopher have on his own that we would pray to him directly for his aid?

That’s my point. If St. Christopher is part of the communion of saints that is in perfect union with God in Heaven, then he knows exactly what God’s will is and will do no differently. So whatever he “does” would be what God wanted him to do. This isn’t granting him God-like powers. Again, it’s helping God to take care of us because that’s the way God set it up, they’re our elder siblings so to speak. And if he is praying for safe travel, that’s still helping keep our travel safe, correct?

 

[MikiBee]

Okay, thank you for clearing that up. =)

 

[PAboy57]

i don’t think the saints know the will of God. i think they pray on our behalf as according to God’s will.

 

[Big_Ro]

I think is a good thread. I say the St. Jude Novena dn St. Josephs prayer for laboreres and this week I started praying the Novena for the souls in purgatory. I often catch myself using wording that would make it seem that I am praying to the Saint himself. I don’t worry about it because I figure God knows that heart. It is wrong, IMHO, to pray to the Saint. We ask the Saint to intercede for us. I don’t see anything wrong with that and really don’t care what protestants say or don’t say.

 

[bookgirl32]

i don’t think the saints know the will of God. i think they pray on our behalf as according to God’s will.

How can they do anything according to God’s will if they don’t know what it is?

EDIT:

Nevermind. I get what you’re saying. I’m not saying that they can read God’s mind, only that once in Heaven they will no longer sin, so would do nothing against God’s will.

 

[choy]

I get confused with St. Michael being called both a saint and an angel. I don’t know how one could be both.

Saints are anyone who is in heaven in perfect union with God. Angels are in heaven, therefore they are saints. but we only know the names of a few of them, notably the 7 archangels

 

[MikiBee]

Thank you Choy. I had been wondering about that for awhile. I thought a saint had to be human. I love coming here and getting answers!

 

[Bailey2]

St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil…

“Mom/dad, protect me from evil.”

Mom and dad can’t do this either, but the child cannot relate to God unseen, untouched, etc. Saints are people we can relate to better than God. They are one of us. Sometimes we talk as if they are our moms and dads in the faith; our parental role models. Sometimes when we are afraid or in need, we plead to them like we would a parent. But we know it is God who gives.

 

[PeterK]

mikebee,

One more thought I think you’ll like.

Follow me through this. The issue with the communion of saints is an issue of power. ‘Why do the saints have that power?’ or ‘Why do you believe the saints have this power?’ To the uninformed it appears Catholics put something ‘between’ people and Christ.

The power is all Christ’s always. Someone may say, “I prayed to St. Francis and I was healed” and that’s fine, but it is Christ who heals through the saint. Some who are opposed to the idea of the communion of saints will come back and say, ‘Well why not pray for healing straight to Christ,’ which is really a ‘Why the middle man?’ question.

I believe a scriptural answer can be found in the gospel episode in which Christ sends the disciples out to heal illnesses and cast out unclean spirits. Apply the same questions to this episode - ‘Why the middlemen?’ ‘Why didn’t Christ go and do it himself?’ I don’t know what Christ’s reasoning was for sending the disciples, but he did reason and execute the sending a certain way - his way - to be sure. I see in this episode a ‘model’ or ‘template’ of the communion of saints. The disciples (saints) who are working amongst those to whom they are sent (earthbound faithful) are doing Christ’s will and achieving results (miracles) all with Christ’s power. And it all glorifies Christ. There is nothing in the gospels that gives us the impression any of the disciples thought they achieved these miraculous results with their own newly discovered powers. To the contrary they were astonished it happened as Christ said.

Some may say this episode is not an appropriate parallel to the communion of saints because in the gospel episode all participants are alive while now some are alive and some are dead. So death becomes the sticking point. So death has a some power. The body of Chirst, the faithful, can pray for each other and cure each other in Christ name while alive. But as soon as one dies these actions are stifled. To believe this is to believe death has some power over the body of Christ. Death drastically limits the scope of charity within the body of Christ. Death then has **power **over the body of Christ.

Not so.

At this point we can illustrate that belief in the communion of saints is actually faith in Christ’s resurrection, because Christ has conquered death, not just for himself, but for all. We are able to pray to our departed faithful and the departed faithful are able to intercede for us in Christ’s name just as when they were alive precisely because Christ - once and for all - has conquered death.

When one prays to the saints and asks for their intercession, by doing this, they knowingly or unknowingly give witness to the completeness of Christ’s defeat over the power of death in his glorious resurrection.

Death is no longer a barrier. It has no power over Body of Christ, which is who we are.

Pray to the saints because you need to and it glorifies and gives witness to Christ’s resurrection.

Many do not associate the communion of saints with Christ’s resurrection - but they should.

Hope this helped.

Peter K

 

[Mama_C]

I am brand new to the site, and excited about the discussions.

Thanks for the clarifications on praying to the saints. I am spiritual director for a group giving a retreat in the Spring, and, of course, am the one in need of good direction in order to lead. I feel like God is leading me in the right direction this day.

 

[NHInsider]

Thank you Choy. I had been wondering about that for awhile. I thought a saint had to be human. I love coming here and getting answers!

This is a little confusing because “saint” has multiple meanings. A “saint” as we’re using the term here in this thread means a human being who has been saved by grace and is in Heaven. But in Scripture it also refers to all those who have been saved by grace-including those who are still living; and in the expression “Communion of the Saints” it also include those in Purgatory. Still all humans who have been saved and sanctified (or in the process of sanctification).

But the title “Saint” is broader still, meaning “Holy One” and so is also applied to the Angels and sometimes even to Jesus, who obviously has not been saved by grace!