Praying to Saints

[Darian]

Could someone give me just one example of a prayer offered to any being other than God in all of Scripture, that was approved of by God?

 

[Ocarm]

Could someone give me just one example of a prayer offered to any being other than God in all of Scripture, that was approved of by God?

Um, there must have been a million threads on this theme, but no-one prays to anyone except God. Praying through the saints is requesting them to pray with you and for you, not expecting them to have the power to grant prayers, because only God has such power.

So no, there is no scriptural instance of anyone praying to anyone other than God. There are numerous examples of people praying for others, however. Of course, not all Christians believe that the dead can offer prayers for the living, but it is a common practice in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions.

Hope that helps, and best wishes to you.

 

[DebChris]

Um, there must have been a million threads on this theme, but no-one prays to anyone except God. Praying through the saints is requesting them to pray with you and for you, not expecting them to have the power to grant prayers, because only God has such power.

So no, there is no scriptural instance of anyone praying to anyone other than God. There are numerous examples of people praying for others, however. Of course, not all Christians believe that the dead can offer prayers for the living, but it is a common practice in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions.

Hope that helps, and best wishes to you.

Ditto.
Pray, by definition, means to ask. Legal documents often state, “pray the court will grant this petition.” Does that mean that a person who “prays” the court to judge in his/her favor worships the court? I would think not.
To “worship” means to place yourself “in service to.” Prayers to saints often explicitly state “pray to the Lord our God.” Our worship belongs to God alone.
The most often quoted prayer on similar threads has been the Hail Mary. The words come directly from Angel Gabriele’s greeting at the Annunciation. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Bless are you among women and blessed the fruit of your womb, Jesus… Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death..
Jesus responded to Mary’s request at Cana. He gave Mary to John at the foot of the cross, symbolically giving her to each of us to be our mother, and us to Mary as her children.
The idea that the saints can intercede on our behalf comes from Jesus himself when asked about the woman who had been married to seven brothers. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is the God of the living and not the dead.

 

[Liraco]

Nice post DebChris, indeed it seems that the hangup is due to not properly understanding the word “pray” itself thinking of it as synonymous with worship. Which you rightly point out is not the case.

Saying you’re against praying to the saints is like saying you’re against asking others to pray for you or you for others, the latter which I don’t think you believe to be true. So then, what’s the hangup?

Look at Revelation 5:8 where the prayers of the saints are being offered up to God.

Just like it’s good for us to ask one another to pray for us and our intentions, how much better do you think the prayers will be if we ask of one who is already with God? Our prayers to one another work because we are all part of the mystical body of Christ, and the saints are also a part of it (more so than us).

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Psalms 103:20 - Praise the Lord, you his angels, you mighty ones who do his bidding.

 

[Bookworm88]

Nice post DebChris, indeed it seems that the hangup is due to not properly understanding the word “pray” itself thinking of it as synonymous with worship. Which you rightly point out is not the case.

Saying you’re against praying to the saints is like saying you’re against asking others to pray for you or you for others, the latter which I don’t think you believe to be true. So then, what’s the hangup?

The hangup is this. I am only going to ask a friend of mine to pray for me if I can actually contact that friend, by phone or by letter or in person. The friend can’t hear me if I just whisper something in my bedroom, even if that friend is also part of the mystical body of Christ. Do we have any indication from Scripture that people who have passed from this earthly life into eternity have the ability to actually hear those of us who are here on earth? How is it that being part of the mystical body of Christ gives people that ability? It seems to me that the ability to hear the requests of those of us on earth is an inherently divine ability, and only God would have that divine ability.

Look at Revelation 5:8 where the prayers of the saints are being offered up to God.

This says that the creatures and elders had “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints,” but it doesn’t say that anyone other than God was able to actually hear the prayers contained in those bowls.

Just like it’s good for us to ask one another to pray for us and our intentions, how much better do you think the prayers will be if we ask of one who is already with God?

It would only be better if they could actually hear us. Simply saying that it would be better does not mean that they can hear us.

 

[Eleve]

It seems to me that the ability to hear the requests of those of us on earth is an inherently divine ability, and only God would have that divine ability.

What leads you to this conclusion? I’m not even a Christian myself, but I’m skeptical of arbitrary assumptions that contradict the understanding of the Church.

 

[DebChris]

Instead of trying to prove or disprove the ability of saints to intercede on our behalf through scripture alone, it might be better to look at Church history. Throughout the centuries many have prayed through the saints to God. Those prayers have been answered with miracles.
Scripture states where two or more are gathered, there is God. Now we know that it is not always possible to find a friend when faced with a situation that calls for prayer. When we pray through the saints, that saint joins us in prayer.
During the Mass, which takes place outside of time, the saints likewise join in the celebration.
Not everything can be explained intellectually. If it could, would we need faith?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Could someone give me just one example of a prayer offered to any being other than God in all of Scripture, that was approved of by God?

I know I can’t - & neither can I find any prayers to Jesus or to the Holy Spirit in it. Does that mean prayer to the Holy Spirit is wrong or idolatry ? Not necessarily: it seems intead to mean that not everything Christians should believe was cut and dried by the time of the writing of the last NT books. Which is also why no NT authors list the NT books, or even say there was to be a written NT of inspired books: the list is a post-Biblical development, like prayer to the Holy Spirit; & also like prayer to the Saints.​

 

[phoenix3212]

Psalms 103:20 - Praise the Lord, you his angels, you mighty ones who do his bidding.

That works. The author tells the angels to praise God.

Isn’t that what we do, only now with Saints included?

 

[Liraco]

It seems to me that the ability to hear the requests of those of us on earth is an inherently divine ability, and only God would have that divine ability.

There’s your answer right there despite not realizing it! You’re absolutely right that only God has this ability. It seems you have the idea that we think saints gain some power of their own. Us Catholics understand that at the base of any ability or any grace is God and no one or nothing else. Our prayers to Mary, prayers to the Saints, the priest’s confection of the Eucharist, everything is through God.

You’re right that it’d be better if they could hear us. When we pray to the saints, we trust that they can hear us because God allows the saints to “hear” our prayers. I say “hear” because souls obviously have no ears, and despite not having bodies they are very much alive. Nothing is impossible to God though so, as a person of faith to another, could you at least say that it’s possible for this to be the case?

The hangup is this. I am only going to ask a friend of mine to pray for me if I can actually contact that friend, by phone or by letter or in person. The friend can’t hear me if I just whisper something in my bedroom, even if that friend is also part of the mystical body of Christ.

Exactly, because those in this material world are bound by physical constraints. A soul in heaven wouldn’t be bound by this because the soul is immaterial.

Yet if you prayed for that friend who can’t hear you, the prayers would not be wasted because of being part of the body of Christ.

You say you’d ask your friend to pray for you if you could contact them, like using the phone for example. Well when we pray to the saints, imagine that through God we’ve got a direct line to any saint in heaven. Much better than a phone because simple words can’t convey our needs or intentions like our hearts can.

We don’t know how but we just trust that God allows our prayers to reach them because He finds it pleasing that we pray for one another. Why must we be disconnected from part of the body of Christ? His body is ONE, not several pieces, therefore it makes sense that through God we are always united as one in Him. So if we’re one, if we’re connected, then why shouldn’t the saints “hear” us?

Your train of thought seems to be on the right track and I just hope that some of our words help you see what’s there. It’s always through God that we understand these things to happen so I hope this sheds some light on that fact.