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Marc_Anthony
Guest
Ah, but why is it wrong because YOU say it is?
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CatholicGuy22
Guest
Yes you are right:thumbsup:
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cs80918
Guest
Maybe it should be in the Apologetics forum.
My bible is different than the catholic bible. Catholics did not give me my Bible God did. Do not take the glory away from God.
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Marc_Anthony
Guest
…And furthermore, unlike the Mormons, whom you mentioned, the Church has no inspired Scripture but the Bible. Sacred Tradition was originally oral tradition that the Church wrote down. But even books with accurate teachings on Sacred Tradition may be accurate, but not divinely inspired. Mormons claim the Book of Mormon is divinely inspired.
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cs80918
Guest
Pardon me maybe I was not blessed with enough intellect, but what are you saying. Give me a better example.
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Marc_Anthony
Guest
Yes, but God inspired the Catholic Church to figure out which books were inspired Scripture.
Every book in “your” Bible is also in the Catholic Bible, and the Catholic Church was the Church that figured out, through the divine intervention of the Holy Spirit, which books should be added to the Canon of Scripture.
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CatholicGuy22
Guest
You and million other people say that. You say in your heart you know the truth and that God has lead you to the truth but this is a dangerous path. Countless people have thought to know the truth. God gave us a church to lead us because we are fallible and we need guidence. The Pope is not fallible by his own power but by God’s and Jesus promise.
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cs80918
Guest
That is not true I can find more than one catholic or yes even more than one church that claims to be catholic to have differences.
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MarkThompson
Guest
LOL, your Bible is just the Catholic Bible, minus a few books Martin Luther removed to make it cheaper to print and to suppress a few passages that didn’t fit his theology.
I guess you’ve never read about how the Bible came to be. Just so you know, a gild-edged volume didn’t tumble out of the sky with a thunderclap. Most of the New Testament was written decades after Christ, and there were a lot of other Gospels and texts floating around which people took just as seriously until the Church finally got down to business and declared which books were to be in the canon and which were to be excluded.
So, you’re welcome. Hope you’ve enjoyed reading it!
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cs80918
Guest
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CatholicGuy22
Guest
Yes on discipline but not faith and morals and if they are people with differences in that category in the church they are heretics
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Melchior_1
Guest
Revelation 5, Verse 7;
“He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”
First, you are correct that “lower-case” saints (the small “s”) can be on Earth. In this passage from the NIV, we see the Elders lifting up the prayers of these “saints” to the Lamb. It was established earlier in Revelation (Chapter 4) that these Elders, the 24, surround the Throne in Heaven, which means they are “dead” in an earthly sense.
**These Elders, who are in Heaven, take the prayers of the faithful on Earth to the Lamb (Jesus). **Although the word “Saint” is not used to describe the Elders, it does show that intercessory prayer to those in Heaven does have a Scriptural foundation within the New Testament.
EDIT:
The Book of Daniel refers to a “prince”, and he wasn’t talking about Jesus. In Daniel 10 it is said “20 So he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince”.
After that in Daniel 12 it goes on to say “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise”.
Michael, a prince, protects God’s people. This does not change after Jesus comes as we look at the Book of Revelation (Chapter 12); “ 7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.”
I love these passages because it shows that we, as Christians, are never alone when it comes to Spiritual Warfare. Both the Book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel clearly shows that Jesus Christ empowered Michael the Archangel to take care of business as required as the leader of God’s Army. And the end result is obvious; victory for the Lamb of God. Most icons that display Saint Michael show him with a huge sword, and more often than not laying down the law like this;
http://vivirlatino.com/i/2008/09/archangel-michael.jpg
*(Please note that the fellow with wings, who does not need to touch the ground with his feet, is clearly stepping on Satan’s FACE).
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“He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”
First, you are correct that “lower-case” saints (the small “s”) can be on Earth. In this passage from the NIV, we see the Elders lifting up the prayers of these “saints” to the Lamb. It was established earlier in Revelation (Chapter 4) that these Elders, the 24, surround the Throne in Heaven, which means they are “dead” in an earthly sense.
**These Elders, who are in Heaven, take the prayers of the faithful on Earth to the Lamb (Jesus). **Although the word “Saint” is not used to describe the Elders, it does show that intercessory prayer to those in Heaven does have a Scriptural foundation within the New Testament.
EDIT:
The Book of Daniel refers to a “prince”, and he wasn’t talking about Jesus. In Daniel 10 it is said “20 So he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince”.
After that in Daniel 12 it goes on to say “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise”.
Michael, a prince, protects God’s people. This does not change after Jesus comes as we look at the Book of Revelation (Chapter 12); “ 7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.”
I love these passages because it shows that we, as Christians, are never alone when it comes to Spiritual Warfare. Both the Book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel clearly shows that Jesus Christ empowered Michael the Archangel to take care of business as required as the leader of God’s Army. And the end result is obvious; victory for the Lamb of God. Most icons that display Saint Michael show him with a huge sword, and more often than not laying down the law like this;
http://vivirlatino.com/i/2008/09/archangel-michael.jpg
*(Please note that the fellow with wings, who does not need to touch the ground with his feet, is clearly stepping on Satan’s FACE).
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Marc_Anthony
Guest
Only if you tell me where in the Bible it prohibits prayer to Saints in Heaven. I am merely following what the Bible says to its logical conclusion.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Okay:
You said, “If a viewpoint can not be defended only with the Bible than that view is a false doctrine.” That’s a common Protestant point of view. But can you please tell us where that point of view comes from? It’s not in the Bible, since “The Bible” didn’t exist at the time its component books were written. So, who ever gave you the doctrine that says that doctrines must be in the Bible to be true?
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cs80918
Guest
Actually, I have read about how the bible came about.LOL, your Bible is just the Catholic Bible, minus a few books Martin Luther removed to make it cheaper to print and to suppress a few passages that didn’t fit his theology.
I guess you’ve never read about how the Bible came to be. Just so you know, a gild-edged volume didn’t tumble out of the sky with a thunderclap. Most of the New Testament was written decades after Christ, and there were a lot of other Gospels and texts floating around which people took just as seriously until the Church finally got down to business and declared which books were to be in the canon and which were to be excluded.
So, you’re welcome. Hope you’ve enjoyed reading it!
twopaths.com/faq_bibles.htm
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cs80918
Guest
No because it contradicts the bible
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Marc_Anthony
Guest
Ah, now YOU’RE the one making assertions. Well, prove it. It absolutely does NOT.
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cs80918
Guest
If something is not in the Bible then how can you prove that it is true?
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Marc_Anthony
Guest
How can you prove that the Bible is true?
We accept the Bible is true because we believe that everything written in it is divinely inspired.
We accept that Sacred Tradition is true because we believe that those teachings are divinely inspired.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Fair enough, but I was thinking with specific reference to the New Testament. For instance, how is it that Acts is in the Bible and Hermas isn’t, or that the Gospel of Mark is but the Gospel of Thomas isn’t? They were all floating around, and there were people who believed all f them to be canonical. It took the Church to define the canon, including some and excluding others.
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