Praying to Saints

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babylonsfalling

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Are there any verses which speak specifically to praying to the Saints that have passed through earthly death?

Where the verse speaks of praying to the heavenly Saints in other words?

Or any other wording which somehow, clearly indicates, without any inference saints which have passed through earthly death.

James 5:16 has been used but it doesn’t work because Paul is speaking to people who have NOT passed through death and telling THOSE people who he calls saints to pray for each other. Heavenly saints are not included in James 5:16, you have to infer James includes heavenly saints.
 
babylonsfalling said:
Are there any verses which speak specifically to praying to the Saints that have passed through earthly death?

Where the verse speaks of praying to the heavenly Saints in other words?

Or any other wording which somehow, clearly indicates, without any inference saints which have passed through earthly death.

James 5:16 has been used but it doesn’t work because Paul is speaking to people who have NOT passed through death and telling THOSE people who he calls saints to pray for each other. Heavenly saints are not included in James 5:16, you have to infer James includes heavenly saints.
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These are only my thoughts I’m no apologist, or biblical scholar.

The Revelation 5:8, always come to my mind, “twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”

You have a scene in Heaven where beings in Heaven, who are not God, are in possession of the prayers of the saints, while worshiping the Lamb, who is obviously Jesus Christ, and presumably offering the prayers up to Him. Where did they get them?

If I’m not mistaken (which I could be, so double check) we take the word presbyter and priest from the Greek for elder, so one could easily draw the conclusion the twenty-four where once earth bound humans, if one were so inclined.

We also know for a fact that angels answer prayers on God’s behalf, i.e. Daniel 10:12-14. So I guess I always wonder why prayers couldn’t even be delivered by the servants of God, to God, above simply asking for intercession from saints. (Even though obviously God already knows the intentions of our hearts before we even pray them).

My opinion is, people and angels in Heaven aren’t just laying around playing harps all day, they are doing useful work for The Lord even in Heaven. Sloth is a sin after all, so I don’t think you’ll find sloth in Heaven.
 
You might want to start with the references in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, numbers 956 and 957. That may lead you where you want to go.
Click on: scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p5.htm

St. Andre Bessett, pray for us!
 
The words addressed to spirits and souls of the just by Sidrach, Misach, and Abdenago from within Nabuchodonosor’s fiery furnace are the closest thing to praying to those who have passed through earthly death that you’ll find in the Christian Bible:

O ye spirits and souls of the just, bless the Lord: praise and exalt him above all for ever. (Daniel 3:86)

This is one of those verses which the so-called Protestant Reformers removed from the Christian Bible in part because they rejected the practice of praying to the saints in heaven.
 
babylonsfalling said:
Are there any verses which speak specifically to praying to the Saints that have passed through earthly death?
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I’m just an ordinary Catholic, but If you are sincerely interested in the scriptural basis for asking the intercession of the heavenly saints, there are scores of tracts, many on this very site. It will take almost zero effort to bring to light the full orthodoxy of the practice. Here are just a couple to get you started:
catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

Here is the story of how a Baptist minister who struggled with this and finally discovered the Truth about it:
biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/baptist_minister_becomes_priest.mp3

Of course the most through going treatment of the scriptural basis of it may be found in The Catechism of The Catholic Church here: “amazon.com/Catechism-Catholic-Church-U-S/dp/0385479670”

I hope this helps clarify any misconceptions you may have.

May Our Lord Jesus Christ richly bless you and may His grace descend upon you and remain with you always.

Your brother in Christ.
 
babylonsfalling said:
Are there any verses which speak specifically to praying to the Saints that have passed through earthly death?

Where the verse speaks of praying to the heavenly Saints in other words?

Or any other wording which somehow, clearly indicates, without any inference saints which have passed through earthly death.

James 5:16 has been used but it doesn’t work because Paul is speaking to people who have NOT passed through death and telling THOSE people who he calls saints to pray for each other. Heavenly saints are not included in James 5:16, you have to infer James includes heavenly saints.
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from James 5: 16:…The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

The verse actually does not distinguish between those in heaven and on earth. It applies to both.

It is just that those in heaven are more righteous than we, so as the verse says, their prayer is more powerful and effective.

Besides, we also have this example from Job 42:

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.
 
babylonsfalling said:
Are there any verses which speak specifically to praying to the Saints that have passed through earthly death?

Where the verse speaks of praying to the heavenly Saints in other words?

Or any other wording which somehow, clearly indicates, without any inference saints which have passed through earthly death.

James 5:16 has been used but it doesn’t work because Paul is speaking to people who have NOT passed through death and telling THOSE people who he calls saints to pray for each other. Heavenly saints are not included in James 5:16, you have to infer James includes heavenly saints.
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In addition to what was quoted from Revelation, here is another from Rev 8:

3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. 4 The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand.

From Matthew 22: 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

The verse says that those in heaven are like angels, get the attributes of angels, who do God’s bidding. So, those in heaven, the Saints, are like angels who also do God’s bidding, pray for us, offer our prayers to God.
 
At the time Judas Maccabeus had this dream/vision, both Onias and Jeremiah were dead, yet both are fervently praying to God on behalf of their people.
2 Maccabees
Chapter 15
11 When he had armed each of them, not so much with the safety of shield and spear as with the encouragement of noble words, he cheered them all by relating a dream, a kind of vision, worthy of belief.
12
3 What he saw was this: Onias, the former high priest, a good and virtuous man, modest in appearance, gentle in manners, distinguished in speech, and trained from childhood in every virtuous practice, was praying with outstretched arms for the whole Jewish community.
13
Then in the same way another man appeared, distinguished by his white hair and dignity, and with an air about him of extraordinary, majestic authority.
14
4 Onias then said of him, “This is God’s prophet Jeremiah, who loves his brethren and fervently prays for his people and their holy city.”
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Revelation.

Saints are presenting prayers to God in Revelation.
 
One of the jobs of the prophets was to pray to God to spare His people from misfortunes and punishments, and to pray for specific things that people asked them to pray for.

So if Elijah went up to God in a chariot of fire, obviously the Lord wanted Elijah to continue doing his job. If he’s not mostly bringing messages any more (except at the Transfiguration), obviously Elijah is busy praying for the people and bringing their requests before the Lord, just like always.

Moses, same thing.
 
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