Praying to Statues?

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So the statue serves as a focal object? I’m curious as many pagan an mystical practices use focal objects to direct their magic.
I suppose you could say that. It would depend upon what you mean by “focal object”. There are certain physical things that help us focus our attention on God. Being in a Church, for example, might help a person focus on prayer (as opposed to being in a concert).

For most of us, music is an imporant “focal object” that draws us into a worshipful frame of mind.

There are certain items, such as rosaries, prayer beads, medals etc. that are faith reminders and help people to maintain a prayerful state of mind.
 
How is praying before a statue different from the people of Israel making a graven image and praying before it?
Because they were worshiping the god the graven image represented. Catholics honor and venerate saints and pray for their intercession. They reserve worship for God.

A return question. Jews (and others) kiss the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. Does that mean they’re worshiping the wall? Or does it mean they’re venerating it because of what it represents?
How is it different from a greek pagan during Christ’s lifetime praying before a statue of Athena?
Again, because the pagan is praying to the goddess Athena, not to one of God’s saints. Saints are “saintly” because of God, not because they come from Mount Olympus. Catholics clearly understand the difference.
 
So the statue serves as a focal object? I’m curious as many pagan an mystical practices use focal objects to direct their magic.
Many things “look similar” – but it doesn’t mean they are similar. When you are away from your wife or husband and look at their picture, do you “love” the picture? Or do you look at the picture because you love the person?
 
Do Catholics worship statues? Do Catholics pray to statues? My girlfriend said that she’s seen come catholics sitting on the ground before a statues of a saint, looking up at the statue, praying. This seems a little much. Opinions?
As you go deeper in your questions or study of Catholicism, you will find out that the meaning of prayer is different for Catholics and Protestants (some, not all). For some protestants, with the de-emphasis on the Mass, the only form of worship they know is praying. For Catholics, praying means differently. It means asking, pleading, asking for intercession, to saints. Worship is at the Mass, which is holy and the highest form of prayer.

Catholics have also different forms of prayers. There are prayers for intercessions, for thanksgiving, for worship, and knows which prayer to say when.

When a catholic is in front of a statue in deep contemplation, he is not worshiping the statue. It is an aide to picture the saint depicted by the statue.

Have you ever looked at a picture of a loved one, had tears looking at it recalling memories, and touched it, as if the loved one was alive? Touching it sort of conveys a connection, isn’t it? Same thing when some Catholics touch a statue, it connotes a connection with the saint. Besides, the statues are also blessed by the priest.
 
How integral is this to being Catholic? Is this something that has to be accepted before converting? 😦

Well, I agree I would not want to miss out on such a thing. By the way, subscribed to Saintscast just so that I could have a greater appreciation and understanding of the Saints.
👍 Do you have one in mind you want to start learning about?
 
Do Catholics worship statues? Do Catholics pray to statues? My girlfriend said that she’s seen come catholics sitting on the ground before a statues of a saint, looking up at the statue, praying. This seems a little much. Opinions?
I found it very confusing myself while I was going through the initial stages of my conversion.

Think of it like this - having a statue of a favourite Saint is just like having a photograph of a relative. You’re not worshipping either, but you have them to remind you of them, or perhaps as a focus for prayer.

Not a perfect metaphor but it helps. 🙂
 
Do Catholics worship statues? Do Catholics pray to statues? My girlfriend said that she’s seen come catholics sitting on the ground before a statues of a saint, looking up at the statue, praying. This seems a little much. Opinions?
Please forgive me if this is redundant; I’m a slow reader and haven’t read the whole thread.

I noticed something about praying before statues. Not TO the statues, but before them.

When I look up at them, it gives me an image to help trigger various empathetic thoughts and feelings from the past associated with everything involving the saint we are kneeling before. Even though the statue is artificial, it works in proxy for actual saints, via the spirit where things in the imagination are more real than those we can touch. All you have to do is admire something about a saint, and your imagination and your subconscious automatically go to work, for the rest of your life, trying to resolve that conflict if it gets a chance.

So yes, if I sit in front of a statue of St. Jude, as I did when I felt helpless and was very psychotic and so was my wife, and various other problems, I pondered those problems. Real or not, the statue of St. Jude brings to mind the idea that we can just trust, and submit to the idea we will be taken care of like the birds and the flowers – and this helps condition our mind to lessen severity of hopelessness. So now that I am healed, I plan to go light a candle by the statue where I lit one when I was frantic and wanted to die if that’s what it took to stop the racing thoughts, many of them very evil. So what this does, is “seals in,” in my memory, a judgment that helps me discern how I feel now v then while praying at the same statue, and that strengthens my confidence that the Holy Spirit really is in charge and will do whatever is best for me – even though it might be a while before I recognize that. So yes, the stone statue of St. Jude has given me an unchanging reference point by which I have experience many different mental states. This is like “anchoring” ourselves to the virtue of the saint that we admire. Even if I go to another church and look at a different statue of Jude, still all of the mental synapses fire that fired with the old church, plus more to take into account the new environment. So even a different statue that looks different, triggers the same memories because what we catholics are after is NOT to be like st so and so, but to ask God for certain spiritual gifts that the saints had, that they exemplified. So if we were trying to be like the saints, that to me is a subtle but dangerous version of idolatry. To look to the saints as examples the church holds of noble and courageous and even miraculous behavior, we get hope that there is wisdom within the Catholic Church that just might be able to help me with my little problem.

That said, I swear I got the very real sensation once that a statue of Joseph moved while I was sitting in silent contemplation. Being an engineer, of course, I could neither believe it nor let it go. Here’s what I came up with. You know how when you stand next to a building and look up at the clouds, it looks like the building is going to fall down on you?

Well it’s kind of like that. I noticed that very slight movements of my head and body resulted in an ever-so-slight shift in my point of view. That made the background appear to move compared to the statue. So like if I moved a teeny little bit, then the spot where, for example, the fingertip of the statue blocks the background changes a little bit. So it looks like a movement between the statue and the background. Since I’m not aware of my own movements, at least not all of them, the visual effect is that I’m standing still, and that the statue is actually moving between me and the background.

That model seems to work for me. I’ve learned to do that intentionally, to let my imagination go further into Wonderland, where God can solve problems no humans can. You can invoke everything connected to St. Jude like this: “Stl Jude pray for us” and spiritually, it’s the same as if you said it to st jude in the flesh. now, if you want a imaginary simulation of a personal experience with the saint, try praying in front of a statue, and even carelessly gaze at it so you can imagine it moving. Maybe when you blink you can imagine it blinks too. whatever works to connect your spirit with something you have confidence in, can reduce hope. Now I’m going to get off the computer and go with my wife to show our gratitude for our healed minds and relationships, by lighting a candle by St. Jude.

Alan
 
Catholics pray and venerate the person who is represented by the statue, image, icon etc.

Think of it like a picture of your mother, father, wife or dog. The picture is of them. It brings you comfort and the feelings you have when you are around them. You may even kiss the picture or look upon it with a gentle sigh. Are your expressions towards the photograph? Are you showing love toward developed paper? Of course not! It’s the being who you show your expression to captured in the picture. This is the same concept. Pretty simple…
 
How is praying before a statue different from the people of Israel making a graven image and praying before it?
they believed the image was God and worshipped it.

We use statues as visual reminders, do not believe they are God, and do not worship them.

There are times in the Old Testament when God actually told the Israelites to make images, to be used in worship (of Him)
How is it different from a greek pagan during Christ’s lifetime praying before a statue of Athena?
Athena is a false goddess, and they believed Athena is somehow in the statue.

We never pray TO a statue of Mary, but rather asking Mary to pray for us in Heaven, and the statue is a visual reminder. We venerate it as a sign of respect, like how people have pictures of their loved ones. And Mary is the Mother of God, not Athena or another pagan goddess 🙂

more about Mary: youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA
 
Have you ever prayed on your knees with your Bible in your hands in front of you? Why are you worshiping a book?
 
When I attended an Anglo Catholic parish, we had a very large crucifix on the side wall of the church. There were many Sundays when a mother and her young son who I believe were Armenian Orthodox would come into the church during Mass and the boy who was about 9 would climb up to where he could reach the crucifix and kiss it. They would wander around the church and kiss pictures also. To be honest it was distracting, however, no one ever said a word to them.

This is part of the Orthodox Churches tradition. When speaking of statues or icons one must remember that the Catholic and Orthodox were at one time united and these are traditions from the beginning of the Church founded by Christ.

I have noticed that some Catholics from other cultures kiss their fingers after signing with the cross, are we to believe that they worship their fingers? I doubt it. It is just a tradition.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
 
How is praying before a statue different from the people of Israel making a graven image and praying before it?

How is it different from a greek pagan during Christ’s lifetime praying before a statue of Athena?
THEY WORSHIP THE IMAGE AS GOD. WE DO NOT.

peace
 
I believe that people actually are praying to the Saints Mary and Jesus. The statues only remiind us of Jesus time how they might have looked and acted. Statues are different things to different people. Statutes are in a Church setting and remind us of his time Jesus when he walked on the face of the Earth.
 
Catholics do not pray to the images or the statues they help us remember the saints that they represent. It no different than having a picture of you mom or dad
 
I know I’m jumping in a bit late, but, theologically speaking there are three types of “worship” or “veneration”.

*There is latria, the worship due only GOD,

*There is dulia, the veneration of Saints,

*and there is hyperdulia, the veneration of Mary the Mother of GOD.

So if you ever hear of Catholics “worshipping” the saints, it’s just that it can be used sometimes a kind of layman’s (and/or non-Catholic’s) shorthand term that can describe any of the above…

Pax,

Sebastiano
 
I know I’m jumping in a bit late, but, theologically speaking there are three types of “worship” or “veneration”.

*There is latria, the worship due only GOD,

*There is dulia, the veneration of Saints,

*and there is hyperdulia, the veneration of Mary the Mother of GOD.

So if you ever hear of Catholics “worshipping” the saints, it’s just that it can be used sometimes a kind of layman’s (and/or non-Catholic’s) shorthand term that can describe any of the above…
That’ll work. Actually almost any non-English will work. 🙂
 
Wow, this thread is a beautiful garden of wonderful words of many colors and shapes.

I’m really glad I checked in on this thread this morning. I see love from everybody, oozing from every word they type.

Life is good. I’m in heaven already, I don’t have to wait until I’m dead, but when I am dead I cannot imagine how much greater it will be for my spirit.

If you don’t believe I’m in heaven, that’s OK. I like to think everybody’s thoughts are important and true to them or they wouldn’t have expressed the thoughts. If you disagree and think that I’m really on earth and that I can’t be in heaven at the same time, then I challenge to do one of two things: join me in heaven for it is but a mindset away at any time, because it isn’t about whether the Lord Wills for you to go to heaven. Jesus already saved us, and has made all of our works, past, present, and future, not even cleansed but repaired better than new. So we don’t have to worry that if we pray for heaven on earth today, we are telling God what to do. It isn’t a matter of praying to get into the kingdom, but to open our eyes and see the beauty that is the kingdom without regard to the fact that 99.999% of good christians can’t see the world without obsessing over its evil. So if you’re up to it, take a wild chance. What will it hurt to imagine being in heaven, if only to have a moment of relaxation and bliss? If you were in heaven but walking on the earth, what would you think when God’s creation is doing things that the inhabitants of the creation like to judge as evil.

Nothing is God’s creation is evil, including the human heart. It is confused, tempted, and deceived, but not evil. THAT is why Jesus said, “Forgive them for they know not what they do.” They killed a man, didn’t they know they were doing that? Yes, but in their stupid, limited, misguided way of thinking, they somehow were decieved that it is OK to kill a man because we don’t like what he said about things we hold sacred.

Alan
 
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