Praying to the Triune God

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  1. Can we pray to and address the triune God as one being or do we always relate to God by praying to one of the persons in the Trinity?
  2. If we can pray to the triune God, isn’t this like speaking to God as one person and not three?
Thank You
 
We can and do pray to God as One without making reference to one of the Persons of the Trinity. As in “O God, come to my assistance. O Lord, make haste to help me.” It’s OK to address God as one, since he is one God, although in three Persons.

There are also specific prayers to the Holy Spirit, and of course we frequently pray to Jesus as Saviour. And in the Mass prayers we pray to the Father, asking him to accept the perfect sacrifice of his Son, Jesus, which we offer in reparation for the sins of the world. At the epiclesis we pray to the Holy Spirit, asking that he will bless and approve this offering.

JimG
 
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JimG:
It’s OK to address God as one, since he is one God, although in three Persons.
JimG
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When we pray to God as one, are we praying to all three persons of the trinity at the same time?
 
Hello and Thank You 🙂

If we can indeed pray to God as one being, isn’t this like praying to one person?

Thank You
 
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Greg_McPherran:
If we can indeed pray to God as one being, isn’t this like praying to one person?
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A good part of it is your intention. Are you praying to all in one, are your praying to one in each of His persons, are your praying both to the triune God and each of His persons simultaneously? God is the only being we know of that is multiple persons in one entity and we do not fully understand how the Trinity works. Does each person hear all prayers - yes? (omniscient)
 
T.A.Stobie:
A good part of it is your intention.
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Hello,

I am not sure what my intention should be. I would think that by definition, the all-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing being that we know as God, must be one. Or for the sake of theory, if there were two Gods, they would have to be in agreement because you can’t have disagreement in absolute truth. So perhaps this is the essence of God, that He is truth and indeed the three persons are in complete agreement. It’s mysterious and I think perhaps exciting! I seek deeper understanding of the trinity.

Perhaps the insight is that God does not necessarily have to be one as long as his beings are in complete agreement. I know this sounds silly on surface. I am a software engineer - I think that by artificially amplifying concepts something of their nature can be understood.

Any insight appreciated. I struggle with the idea of the trinity because it seems arbitrary. Why 3? Why not 5, Why not 7?

If someone tells me that God is one being and that He is beyond full comprehension (especially on earth), I can understand that. If someone tells me that God is one but at the same time He is three persons, that seems like a contradiction. It may not be a contradiction, but this is where I am. I believe, but I seek to better understand how this is not a contradiction.
  1. Can I pray to the one God without praying to all three persons?
  2. Am I always praying to the one God in the form of praying to three persons?
  3. If 2 is true, then how is this different than praying to three Gods?
Thank You,
Greg
 
Greg, did you take my advice in the other thread and read up on “person” and “nature” as used by the Church. Your questions show that you don’t grasp this distinction.
 
I recommend reading Frank Sheed’s book “Theology for Beginners” for a better understanding of the Trinity and the interaction of person and nature, as well as the attributes of God. Despite the title, it gave me all the information that I needed.

JimG
 
Hello,

If someone can give me direct answers to each question, I would be most grateful:
  1. Can I pray to the one God without praying to all three persons?
  2. Am I always praying to the one God in the form of praying to three persons?
  3. If 2 is true, then how is this different than praying to three Gods?
Thank You,
Greg
 
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Greg_McPherran:
Hello,

If someone can give me direct answers to each question, I would be most grateful:
  1. Can I pray to the one God without praying to all three persons?
  2. Am I always praying to the one God in the form of praying to three persons?
  3. If 2 is true, then how is this different than praying to three Gods?
Thank You,
Greg
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  1. No
  2. Yes
  3. Because we are praying to three persons in one God and there is not three God’s only one. 🙂
Yours in the Spirit

Pious
 
This may help you 🙂

Athanasian Creed
  1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
  2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
  3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
  4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
  5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
  6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
  7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
  8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
  9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
  10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
  11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
  12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
  13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
  14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
  15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
  16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
  17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
  18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
  19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
  20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
  21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
Cont…
 
Cont…
  1. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
  2. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
  3. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
  4. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
  5. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
  6. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
  7. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
  8. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  9. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
  10. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
  11. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
  12. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
  13. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
  14. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
  15. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
  16. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
  17. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
  18. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
  19. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
  20. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
  21. and shall give account of their own works.
  22. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
  23. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
Yours in the Spirit

Pious.
 
**Thank You Pious, I will contemplate that! I appreciate your direct answers to my questions and I appreciate all the kind help from others!! 🙂 **
 
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Pious:
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
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If I am in math class and I say I have three things that are each an apple but I do not have three apples - will I receive an F?

How is this not a mathematical contradiction? How is this not a contradiction in general?
 
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Greg_McPherran:
If I am in math class and I say I have three things that are each an apple but I do not have three apples - will I receive an F?

How is this not a mathematical contradiction? How is this not a contradiction in general?
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My friend, you are trying to hard to understand the Trinity of God, it is a Mystery. 😉

Three apples came from one tree, just as three persons are of one God, I know it can be confusing :confused:

Also you could look at the apple to try and explain the Trinity, an apple has a skin, flesh and a seed; three things but only one whole apple.

One of the best explanations of the Trinity was given by St. Patrick, he was trying to explain it to the old pagans of Ireland and so he picked up a shamrock and pointed out to the three leaves on the plant, he said that the three leaves were like Father, Son and Holy Spirit and yet the three leaves were in fact joined as one whole plant, just as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One True God. 👍

Yours in the Spirit.

Pious 🙂
 
This discussion reminds me of a story I once heard about (I believe) St. Augustine. He was on a beach watching a little boy carry water and pour it into a hole he had dug in the sand. He told the boy that he would never be able to put the entire ocean into the hole, and the boy told him that he’d never be able to understand the Trinity.

I’ve just been reading a really difficult, but wonderful book, The Three Ages of the Interior Life, by Garrigou-Lagrange. One of the early chapters concerns what will happen in heaven - that we will know even as we are known by God. God knows directly, without the intervention of ideas. (Take a minute to wrap your mind around this one!) When we get to heaven, the beatific vision will consist of knowing God directly, at which point, we’ll understand the Trinity. It’s our human ideas (by which I mean the process of thinking with ideas, not goofy ideas that individuals come up with), and the limitations of our intellect that get in the way of answering your questions, Greg.

The following is entirely my opinion. I think that when you pray to God, either “God” or one of the Divine Persons, “God,” Who is indivisible, will hear you. Because God is one, you cannot pit one of the three Divine Persons against another, not that you would want to - this is just theoretical. And God bless the person who put up the Athanasian Creed - that’s as close as we’ll get to a real explanation before we die.

Betsy
 
Pious said:
1. No
  1. Yes
  2. Because we are praying to three persons in one God and there is not three God’s only one. 🙂
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On a lighter note…My Catholic grandmother used to joke with a little ‘Catholic Humor’ when asked by her children : “Why is there only on God?” She answered, “because they might fight” Annunciata:)
 
Hello,

Thank you Pious and Annunciata and others.

I can embrace a mystery. I think the Church teaches us that it is good logic not to accept contradictions. I seek to at least eliminate contradictions in my mind regarding the Most Holy Trinity. From there I can embrace the mystery.

I understand St. Patrick’s analogy of the clover. However, the clover is not the way the trinity is taught. The trinity is taught that each person is God, so therefore each leaf of the clover would be the entire clover.

If each person of the trinity is God, how can there be any difference between each person? Is it the relationship of the person’s that makes each other complete as God? What I am saying is that perhaps the being of God exists as trinity and in fact this trinity and God’s inherent relationships in the trinity are in fact an essence of the being of God. Therefore, each person is God but this is insofar as each person is in relationship with the other two persons.

The analogy that comes to mind is three lenses; red, green, and blue. The three lenses are combined and the light from them is always seen as white. It does not matter which lens you look through, it is always white because they are united. So you see the one God, which is the union of the three, through any of the lenses. However, if the three were not united, they would not be God, so that they are each God because of their union with each other and this is the esence of God.

Greg
 
Three apples are distinct entities. Each apple has it’s own separate apple nature.

Because there is only one God, there is only one nature of God, one essence, one entity. God is a person.

That person (Father) knows himself completely–so completely that his very expression of himself (Word) is also a person (Son) who possesses the same divine nature–not a separate one.

Father and Son, as distinct persons, express their love so perfectly that their love itself is a separate person (Spirit) possessing the same nature, not a separate nature.

It has been said that whenever God deals with humanity, it is essentially God in Three persons who deal with us, even though we attribute separate activities to the Persons.

(The Second Person, of course, took on a human nature, and so became one of us.)

JimG
 
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