Praying versus Saying Prayers

[TrueLight]

One way that Evangelicals differ from Catholics is the way that they pray. Now, I’m not going to speak for all Evangelicals but in my experience, I was taught that when I pray should pray spontaneously - Not “say prayers”. We ask God for what we want and we pray in Jesus’ name. We don’t read or recite prayers.

I noticed on this website that someone asked for prayer for a particular person and there was an influx of “Hail Marys” and “Our Father’s”.

Wait a minute. Why can’t we pray from the heart and ask God to help that person?

It doesn’t make sense to me that I can’t ask my creator to help me with health issues or my job situation or losing weight, or whatever.

Some verses on prayer:

Matthew 6:7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.”

Yes, I know Catholics don’t use vain repetitions ( I heard this answered on the Catholic Answers radio station). However, they are still repetitions.

Matthew 11: 22-25: “‘Have faith in God,’ Jesus answered. ‘I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, “Go, throw yourself into the sea,” and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins’” ).

Although this doesn’t preclude reading prayers, it seems to imply a more spontaneous way of praying to me.

One other thing I want to bring up is that I see a lot of prayers that end in “In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Whatever happened to ending a prayer in “In Jesus Name”

Any thoughts/historical reference?

 

[Marie5890]

I do know exactly what you are saying and why. And I agree completely.

But at the same time I can tell you know also know what it’s like to “pray prayers”

I know what it’s like to pray the prayer known as the Our Father
I know what it’s like to pray the prayer known as the Holy Rosary
I know what it’s like to pray the prayer known as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

In the end it comes down to, for me at least, my approach.

In my years as a non-Catholic but very active in another denomination, I know what it’s like to say “spontaneous” prayers that were just as robotic and rote as those above can be when we just “say them” but not “pray them”

It really does cut both ways in my experience

 

[skinny_pumpkin]

*The best thing, where it is possible, is to keep the patient from the serious intention of praying altogether. When the patient is an adult recently re-converted to the Enemy’s party, like your man, this is best done by encouraging him to remember, or to think he remembers, the parrot-like nature of his prayers in childhood. In reaction against that, he may be persuaded to aim at something entirely spontaneous, inward, informal, and unregularised; and what this will actually mean to a beginner will be an effort to produce in himself a vaguely devotional mood in which real concentration of will and intelligence have no part. One of their poets, Coleridge, has recorded that he did not pray “with moving lips and bended knees” but merely “composed his spirit to love” and indulged “a sense of supplication”. That is exactly the sort of prayer we want; and since it bears a superficial resemblance to the prayer of silence as practised by those who are very far advanced in the Enemy’s service, clever and lazy patients can be taken in by it for quite a long time. At the very least, they can be persuaded that the bodily position makes no difference to their prayers; for they constantly forget, what you must always remember, that they are animals and that whatever their bodies do affects their souls. It is funny how mortals always picture us as putting things into their minds: in reality our best work is done by keeping things out.

  If this fails, you must fall back on a subtler misdirection of his intention. Whenever they are attending to the Enemy Himself we are defeated, but there are ways of preventing them from doing so. The simplest is to turn their gaze away from Him towards themselves. Keep them watching their own minds and trying to produce feelings there by the action of their own wills. When they meant to ask Him for charity, let them, instead, start trying to manufacture charitable feelings for themselves and not notice that this is what they are doing. When they meant to pray for courage, let them really be trying to feel brave. When they say they are praying for forgiveness, let them be trying to feel forgiven. Teach them to estimate the value of each prayer by their success in producing the desired feeling; and never let them suspect how much success or failure of that kind depends on whether they are well or ill, fresh or tired, at the moment.*

CS Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

Written prayers require a humble submission and a letting go of the ego. When properly approached, one is not encumbered with one’s self or the “creation” of anything.

This does not preclude praying in one’s own voice. Often there are introductory prayers and trusted rubrics that are practiced first, before one humbly offers him or herself.

Just some thoughts.

 

[cthulhubryan]

I noticed on this website that someone asked for prayer for a particular person and there was an influx of “Hail Marys” and “Our Father’s”.

Wait a minute. Why can’t we pray from the heart and ask God to help that person?

We certainly can:thumbsup:

However, I sometimes think that some folks like to pray publicly for the attention they get from their prayers. I’m sure anyone who has regularly attended protestant services has met a preacher like this.

God reads the intentions of our hearts and a heartfelt Our Father or Hail Mary is a powerful weapon on behalf of our friends against the Enemy.

To me, prayers are both a comfort as they come to mind at times when the mind is too shocked for much else and they are also much like a letter of introduction that helps you get to know prayer and thus how to communicate with the Father.

As to naming the trinity as opposed to just saying “In Jesus Name” it is both a teaching tool of the past to help us to understand the nature of God as well as invoking God fully. There is nothing wrong with either one!

My :twocents:

 

[Mumbles140]

I noticed on this website that someone asked for prayer for a particular person and there was an influx of “Hail Marys” and “Our Father’s”.

Wait a minute. Why can’t we pray from the heart and ask God to help that person?

Was it not Jesus who taught us the Our Father? And if you look at the Hail Mary, it is largely composed of verses from the Bible (the angel’s address to Mary).

Now, as stated above, it is truly a matter of intent. I understand I may not be the best with words. In specific situations, I may pray using my own words. However, at certain times, I forego my words and connect with the words of some of the greatest and wisest saints the Church has ever known. How could I possibly explain my desire to ‘take up my Cross with Christ’ better than a saint who received the Stigmata? How can I compare my own imaginative ideas of giving all for Christ better than the martyrs who handed their lives over for Him?

It is possible to pray out of habit/routine, where it is a recitation on your lips and not an intention in your heart, but that can occur at any time, whether it is a spontaneous personal prayer or a well-published prayer of a saint. The importance is directing your heart, your mind, and your actions into those words you are praying.

 

[asia53]

One other thing I want to bring up is that I see a lot of prayers that end in “In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Whatever happened to ending a prayer in “In Jesus Name”

Any thoughts/historical reference?

Prayers begin, and end with “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”, known as the Sign of the Cross. Also, the Mass begins, and ends with the Sign of the Cross. I was taught to do this.

As to ending a prayer with “In Jesus Name”, I don’t know that anything happened to it–just wouldn’t be the end for me.

Here’s an article with history, etc:

newadvent.org/cathen/13785a.htm

I’m sorry, it’s lengthy, however, I think, it’ll answer some of your questions.

 

[Chatter163]

Wait a minute. Why can’t we pray from the heart and ask God to help that person?

It doesn’t make sense to me that I can’t ask my creator to help me with health issues or my job situation or losing weight, or whatever.

Who said that we can’t? That’s quite an assumption you are making, as I do not recall anyone claiming otherwise.

Yes, I know Catholics don’t use vain repetitions ( I heard this answered on the Catholic Answers radio station). However, they are still repetitions.

If you yourself acknowledge that they are not vain, then why are you concerned? You appear to be contradicting yourself here.

Although this doesn’t preclude reading prayers, it seems to imply a more spontaneous way of praying to me.

The last two words are the key to this sentence.

 

[Chatter163]

Wait a minute. Why can’t we pray from the heart and ask God to help that person?

It doesn’t make sense to me that I can’t ask my creator to help me with health issues or my job situation or losing weight, or whatever.

Who said that we can’t? That’s quite an assumption you are making, as I do not recall anyone claiming otherwise.

Yes, I know Catholics don’t use vain repetitions ( I heard this answered on the Catholic Answers radio station). However, they are still repetitions.

If you yourself acknowledge that they are not vain, then why are you concerned? You appear to be contradicting yourself here.

Although this doesn’t preclude reading prayers, it seems to imply a more spontaneous way of praying to me.

The last two words are the key to this sentence.

 

[DJgang]

Why does it have to be. “either / or” to a Protestant?

Actually think that Catholics do not spontaneously pray? Wrong.

I like the Catholic Mass because it doesn’t require the Priest to be a “entertainer” of a spontaneous prayer.

When a group of people pray a rosary, say an Our Father or Hail Mary, we don’t have to announce why…each person has an individual reason for saying that prayer…is that not spontaneous? of course it is!

So as a Catholic, former Protestant, I do BOTH! Yep, imagine that! A Catholic can make a spontaneous prayer, but guess what…I do this in private.

 

[Barbkw]

Matthew 6:7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.”

Matthew 6:7 actually refers to vain repetition. A person has to first be vain - in order to pray in vain repetition. Apparently, the pagans that Matthew knew were vain in their requests as they prayed to their deities.

In addition, the USCCB writes of Matthew 6:7:

The example of what Christian prayer should be like contrasts it now not with the prayer of the hypocrites but with that of the pagans. Their babbling probably means their reciting a long list of divine names, hoping that one of them will force a response from the deity.

 

[heart4home]

Actually, I’m always surprised by this question because its always seems that many miss the message in Matthew “And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.”

Yes we can pray with our own words, nothing wrong with that at all, but be sure to notice Jesus tell us, that God already knows what we need and therefore gave us an example with the “OUR FATHER” to pray?

Did Jesus tell us to avoid vain repetition? Yes, but repetition or babbling could also mean saying the same thing over or asking for the same thing repeatedly in long drawn out prayers.

Honestly on many occasions when I’ve heard people from other denominations praying in places such as Churches or Bible studies etc. they often seem to babble on and on saying basically the same thing over and over, but just using different words to do it.
Would it not be just as easy for somebody to question their intentions and whether they feel like they will be better heard for their many words or whether they actually feel like God doesn’t already know what it is they need.

The “Our Father” is the prayer that Jesus gave as our example and I have no doubt that it pleases God when we pray it sincerely from our heart.

 

[TrueLight]

Yes we can pray with our own words, nothing wrong with that at all, but be sure to notice Jesus tell us, that God already knows what we need… a
.

That is an awesome point. Thank you!

You just reminded me of Romans 8:26:
*
“In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.”*

So then when we are saying prayers, the Spirit knows the desires and struggles of our heart and translates these prayers into what we truly need?

 

[TrueLight]

Why does it have to be. “either / or” to a Protestant?

So as a Catholic, former Protestant, I do BOTH! Yep, imagine that! A Catholic can make a spontaneous prayer, but guess what…I do this in private.

That’s great!

I should have set up a poll. I wonder if you do both because you were taught as a Protestant to pray spontaneously.

Here is a question to those who did not come from the Protestant church.

If a friend came to you and said “I need prayer. I’m going to a horrible situation. Would you pray with me?” Is there anyone who would feel comfortable praying in a way that wasn’t memorized or read?

 

[TrueLight]

Who said that we can’t? That’s quite an assumption you are making, as I do not recall anyone claiming otherwise.

If you yourself acknowledge that they are not vain, then why are you concerned? You appear to be contradicting yourself here.

The last two words are the key to this sentence.

The way I phrased the original question may have been offensive to some, but don’t be too quick to be brusque.

My journey began a week before Ash Wednesday and since that time, I have been blessed and have learned so much.

My questioning is my way of seeking answers for the difficult parts for me.

It’s a journey.

 

[TrueLight]

Here’s an article with history, etc:

newadvent.org/cathen/13785a.htm

I’m sorry, it’s lengthy, however, I think, it’ll answer some of your questions.

Hi there,

This links to an article about the Sign of the Cross. Did you mean to link to that article?

 

[TrueLight]

It is possible to pray out of habit/routine, where it is a recitation on your lips and not an intention in your heart, but that can occur at any time, whether it is a spontaneous personal prayer or a well-published prayer of a saint. The importance is directing your heart, your mind, and your actions into those words you are praying.

Intention.

That is a good point.

Do you believe those prayers are words of power? Almost like conduits? I don’t mean to sound new agey, but isn’t it possible that by repeating words you know, instead of searching for words, prayers can be more focused and effective?

 

[Mumbles140]

Intention.

That is a good point.

Do you believe those prayers are words of power? Almost like conduits? I don’t mean to sound new agey, but isn’t it possible that by repeating words you know, instead of searching for words, prayers can be more focused and effective?

I believe all prayers are words of power - that is why all prayer is sacred. However, I believe the intentions of the person praying direct this power. If someone is not focused, when they pray, it is likely that direction will not be focused. However, I don’t think this depends on whether it is a ‘set-form’ prayer (my own way of describing prayers such as the Our Father, Hail Mary, or Glory Be) or spontaneous prayer.

Every morning, while riding the metro to work, I have a set of prayers I go through, with specific intentions for each prayer. Now, if I just ‘recite’ the words, I believe my prayers are heard, but with something as sacred as prayer, why go into it without focus? If I can’t keep focus, I’ll wait until later when I can find a time to give it my full attention. But, when I can think about those petitions I am asking for, and really think about the words of those prayers and what they are asking, I feel more ‘connected’ to my petitions, rather than just paying lip service.

Now, at family gatherings, such as Thanksgiving or Christmas, someone is always asked to lead the family in prayer, which consists of something ‘spontaneous’ and then the Grace Before a Meal prayer (Bless us, O Lord…). I feel a certain connection there also in expressing the petitions of my family, offering up our actions to Christ, and giving thanks for all that God has provided (tangible and intangible).

So, to give you the quick answer you likely desired, I think one can be just as focused praying spontaneously or in form, but either way can lead to distraction as well. But when the heart and mind are praying in harmony, then any form of prayer is sacred, well-intentioned, and powerful.

 

[stephen_cerutti]

One way that Evangelicals differ from Catholics is the way that they pray. Now, I’m not going to speak for all Evangelicals but in my experience, I was taught that when I pray should pray spontaneously - Not “say prayers”. We ask God for what we want and we pray in Jesus’ name. We don’t read or recite prayers.

I noticed on this website that someone asked for prayer for a particular person and there was an influx of “Hail Marys” and “Our Father’s”.

Wait a minute. Why can’t we pray from the heart and ask God to help that person?

It doesn’t make sense to me that I can’t ask my creator to help me with health issues or my job situation or losing weight, or whatever.

Some verses on prayer:

Matthew 6:7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.”

Yes, I know Catholics don’t use vain repetitions ( I heard this answered on the Catholic Answers radio station). However, they are still repetitions.

Matthew 11: 22-25: “‘Have faith in God,’ Jesus answered. ‘I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, “Go, throw yourself into the sea,” and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins’” ).

Although this doesn’t preclude reading prayers, it seems to imply a more spontaneous way of praying to me.

One other thing I want to bring up is that I see a lot of prayers that end in “In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Whatever happened to ending a prayer in “In Jesus Name”

Any thoughts/historical reference?

 

[stephen_cerutti]

When we pray we should pray from the heart,…even when we recite written prayers,
written prayers are great as long as you are not just recieting them without feelings from the heart

Also they are good to say together as a group, I believe god is pleased when we all pray together the same words

when we pray alone you may pray ether way as long as it’s from the heart

I also believe that the Catholic religion is gods favorite christian group,because of our ability to pray both ways

 

[asia53]

Hi there,

This links to an article about the Sign of the Cross. Did you mean to link to that article?

Yes, I meant to link to that article. The OP’s question was why do we end our prayers with “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”, known as the Sign of the Cross.