praying with non-Catholics

[ctos]

Using metaphysical terms and philosophies in regards to the Holy Mystery seems antithetical to me. Christianity did fine for 11 centuries before coining transubstantiation. When rationalism became all the rage, the Church felt like it should follow suit.

It’s the Body and Blood of Christ. Period. Why say more?

O+

Indeed, amicably! You bet. I’m glad you are here. A meeting place like this is a big help.

Ah: Now you make most interesting point O. Most interesting indeed! You see, the Church cannot ignore what comes along. The Church sanctifies, and baptizes. It isn’t that the Church ‘felt it should follow suit’, rather, the Church showed how the faith is rational. Why say more? Because faith seeks understanding. People always want to have a deeper understanding. And for all the theological study of transubstantiation, of the Holy Eucharist, it remains a mysterium fidei, which we say at Mass. We don’t claim it’s not a mystery.

 

[aurora77]

I am troubled too, because I feel I must adjust my attitude somehow, and this is why I started this thread. I need to make sure that I am seeing non-Catholics correctly.

Kudos!

 

[O.S.Luke]

I am troubled too, because I feel I must adjust my attitude somehow, and this is why I started this thread. I need to make sure that I am seeing non-Catholics correctly.

I think a lot of what you have seen are the extremes that give way to stereotypes, much as when some bigoted Protestants call Catholics “Mary worshipers.”

I was a musician for all the Catholic masses on and around campus when I was in college. I’ve been a pastor for 20 years, and have presided at weddings and funerals with priests during that amount of time; one priest was my tennis partner for several years. You’ll find that liturgical Protestants will be easier to work with in such situations, but not exclusively.

O+

 

[catsrus]

Okay, O.S.Luke, I looked at your profile to see something about you.
some corrections:

1st. You are 20 years my junior. When I attended a methodist church in 1955 and again a couple times in 1980, I was passed a plate of bread. If you don’t believe that, that’s your problem.
2nd. The True Body & Blood of Christ may be CLAIMED by the anglicans and the methodists, but that’s it: it’s a claim. Anglicans and methodists do not believe they are consuming The True Body and Blood. It is a symbol. My father, the methodist, explained that to me and so did my mother, the lutheran. I also learned it in my lutheran catachism class.
3rd. You can call your communion your’s, Christ’s or whatever you want.
The center of the Catholic Faith is the Holy Eucharist. I’d say we know that It IS Christ, not that is Christ’s.

 

[Abira]

I’ve been brought up Anglican all my life and my Father is a Priest (Or Vicar lol) in the Church of England…and I have never ever been taught that the body is reall present. It is taught as simply a powerful symbol of communion with eachother, Christ and his sacrifice. I have never heard anyone refer to this differently.

Take care, S

 

[ctos]

Abira, what do you think about praying with Catholics? Worth doing? Worth avoiding? Given a choice,… ? Opinions?

 

[ctos]

No Methodist church I have ever served or been in served communion in the pews.

I was in a Methodist church once and they passed a gold-colored tray down to all the pews. This would have been late 1980s.

 

[ctos]

Praying with them is one thing, to a point. I’m very careful about that and usually just bow my head respectfully as they do the praying.

Would it be better to want to lead them?

And what if you mentioned something about our Blessed Mother while praying? Would they be supremely irritated? Would you be sure to pray only as they would understand, lest they be offended and their hearts hardened? (Consider the point of not eating sacrificed meats, lest those who are wont to believe in the sacrifice be tempted to eat it themselves cf. 1 Cor. 8:8 ff. – sometimes we adjust our behavior to take account of someone else’s weakness. In this case the Protestant has a weak understanding of the saints, and so rather than try his understanding, we pray as they understand prayer, and so build unity.).

 

[Zirconia]

I have no qualms about praying with non-Catholics. I’ve done at meals, for special petitions, etc. Of course, I’m the only one who makes a Sign of the Cross at the end of the prayer (if it’s a prayer that signifies an overall good) .

Reading your post just reminded me of a question that’s going to make me sound very stupid…

So how should a Protestant respond when a Catholic makes the Sign of the Cross?

I know this sounds silly, but once I had a Catholic coworker over for dinner, and when I said I was going to say Grace, she made the Sign of the Cross, and it threw me so badly (not used to it at all) that she had to remind me to finish saying the prayer…

So what, if anything, should I have said/done?

Zirconia

 

[ctos]

Would you say that we should want to pray with non-Catholics, or, should we simply handle it well when the circumstance arises?

 

[O.S.Luke]

Okay, O.S.Luke, I looked at your profile to see something about you.
some corrections:

1st. You are 20 years my junior. When I attended a methodist church in 1955 and again a couple times in 1980, I was passed a plate of bread. If you don’t believe that, that’s your problem.
2nd. The True Body & Blood of Christ may be CLAIMED by the anglicans and the methodists, but that’s it: it’s a claim. Anglicans and methodists do not believe they are consuming The True Body and Blood. It is a symbol. My father, the methodist, explained that to me and so did my mother, the lutheran. I also learned it in my lutheran catachism class.
3rd. You can call your communion your’s, Christ’s or whatever you want.
The center of the Catholic Faith is the Holy Eucharist. I’d say we know that It IS Christ, not that is Christ’s.

Both Anglican and Methodist official statements specifically say it is NOT a symbol. The official statement of the United Methodist Church:

CHRIST IS HERE — EXPERIENCING THE MYSTERY
The Presence of Christ
Jesus Christ, who “is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of God’s very being” (Hebrews 1:3), is truly present in Holy Communion. Through Jesus Christ and in the power of the Holy Spirit, God meets us at the Table. God, who has given the sacraments to the church, acts in and through Holy Communion. Christ is present through the community gathered in Jesus’ name (Matthew 18:20), through the Word proclaimed and enacted, and through the elements of bread and wine shared (1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The divine presence is a living reality and can be experienced by participants; it is not a remembrance of the Last Supper and the Crucifixion only.

We have our differences… but we need to be clear what they are, and not proceed on information that is faulty. All this adds to the bigotry and mistruths which are not helpful to Christian amity.

Separated brethren are still brethern. The Lord be with you, Catsrus. God bless you.

O+

 

[Abira]

Abira, what do you think about praying with Catholics? Worth doing? Worth avoiding? Given a choice,… ? Opinions?

Hi Ctos,

actually you just reminded me of a cringeworthy moment. Last week I had to go to a RC school for a day and never realised…when I had to lead the Lord’s Prayer I made a fool of myself as all 400 of the kids ended at the ‘but deliver us frm evil. amen’ and I carried on lol

ok so personal opinion:

If you’d asked me last year I’d have said ‘never’, but to be honest I had a deep seated anti-Catholic prejudice that I’m sorting out lol.

Now: I’d say that I had no problem with it although I’d feel out of place in a Catholic service…or feel that I would feel uncomfortable. To me praying with a Catholic (unless it was massively Mary/Saint addressed) would be the same as praying with anyone else. I still feel slightly uncomfortable with intercessory prayer; it’s not something I’ve ever seen or done as an Anglican by upbringing.

without getting into the eucharist and differences in wording and actions, the underlying idea of prayer is not hindered by any of these issues for me.

S

 

[Zirconia]

Hi Ctos,

ok so personal opinion:

If you’d asked me last year I’d have said ‘never’, but to be honest I had a deep seated anti-Catholic prejudice that I’m sorting out lol.

Now: I’d say that I had no problem with it although I’d feel out of place in a Catholic service…or feel that I would feel uncomfortable. To me praying with a Catholic (unless it was massively Mary/Saint addressed) would be the same as praying with anyone else. I still feel slightly uncomfortable with intercessory prayer; it’s not something I’ve ever seen or done as an Anglican by upbringing.

S

Maybe someone can define intercessory prayer?

I am quite confused, I thought that intercessory prayer meant praying for someone (or something) else, such as praying for someone who is sick, or for the conversion of an unbeliever, or that a drought might be ended so the crops don’t die.

Do Anglicans not do this? Why not?



I agree, praying with Catholics is like praying with other non-Catholic Christians (since Catholics are Christians ), unless, as already pointed out above, the prayers were heavily Marian in nature. In which case I would not be so much irritated as uncomfortable and wondering what to do next.

Sometimes all these things can make me feel quite stupid…

Zirconia

 

[water]

I didn’t have many chances to pray with non-Catholic, but from time to time, I do - and I don’t have any problem with that. We pray to the same God.

 

[Abira]

Maybe someone can define intercessory prayer?

sorry…it’s just a personal hangup. im uncomfortable praying to/through saints or Mary but I’m ok with living people praying for me. I realise that this isn’t rational lol it’s just something I’ve never done.

S

 

[ctos]

Protestants do a lot of intercessory prayer among the living, but most of them don’t consider those asleep in Christ as ‘available’ for helping out with things in the world below. If I understand correctly that is.

Thanks for sharing your views.

What do you think about the House Chaplain being Catholic?

On March 23, 2000, the Speaker of the House appointed the first Roman Catholic House chaplain, Father Daniel P. Coughlin, to fill the vacancy caused by the resignation of Rev. James Ford, who had served as House chaplain since January 1979. Rev. Charles C. Pise, the only Catholic priest to be elected Senate chaplain, served for one year (1833).

 

[Abira]

Protestants do a lot of intercessory prayer among the living, but most of them don’t consider those asleep in Christ as ‘available’ for helping out with things in the world below. If I understand correctly that is.

yeah I’d agree with that view. I’d also add that many are really uncomfortable with it. It’s not just something I’ve never done or seen done, it’s something I’d feel very very uncomfortable doing. I’d feel as though I’d had done something wrong.

I’m not sure why there is this difference in protestantism/catholicism. I’m not even sure if it’s protestant doctrine etc or whether it’s something that is practiced differenty out of the textbook and protestants should/should not feel ok with intecessory prayer.

S

 

[ctos]

yeah I’d agree with that view. I’d also add that many are really uncomfortable with it. It’s not just something I’ve never done or seen done, it’s something I’d feel very very uncomfortable doing. I’d feel as though I’d had done something wrong.

I’m not sure why there is this difference in protestantism/catholicism. I’m not even sure if it’s protestant doctrine etc or whether it’s something that is practiced differenty out of the textbook and protestants should/should not feel ok with intecessory prayer.

S

Perhaps, as Protestants as a group moved away from the seven sacraments and the pope, they gradually or perhaps quickly left behind some of the ‘less visible’ aspects of Christianity. But I don’t want to jaundice our discussion by trying to foist on you that your ancestors ‘left’ the seven sacraments and the pope. You probably think there was nothing to ‘leave’.

Let me ask you this. Suppose your family is Protestant. Not a bad assumption. Now suppose you have a Catholic relative who is visiting for a few days, who suggests a group prayer session. What sort of group prayer session would you be amenable to? Maybe some hymn singing? Or perhaps the Liturgy of the Hours or the approximate on universalis.com/ ? And how would you respond to a Catholic who was friendly, upbeat, and eager to pray in a group with you?

 

[Abira]

Let me ask you this. Suppose your family is Protestant. Not a bad assumption. Now suppose you have a Catholic relative who is visiting for a few days, who suggests a group prayer session. What sort of group prayer session would you be amenable to? Maybe some hymn singing? Or perhaps the Liturgy of the Hours or the approximate on universalis.com/ ? And how would you respond to a Catholic who was friendly, upbeat, and eager to pray in a group with you?

I’m not familiar with the liturgy of the hours… so my answer would be: “erm, ok… what do I have to do??” (and I’d make my impression of it then)

I would sing hymns, no problem

my favoured method of prayer when there might be different denominations present would be open prayer. just in an informal circle where everyone can put out their concerns or prayers for others, then the different actions etc would not be so significant ad wouldn’t be a barrier.

S

 

[Abira]

I’d respond to an eager Catholic no differently then I would respond to a protestant in that situation.

Take care, S