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dochawk
Guest
FWIW, we still use the 12 Gospel reading at noon on Good Friday in my EC parish (and most others, I believe)
hawk
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hawk
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The RC Easter Vigils I’ve been at all had more than 4 readings, also. I am not sure what the exact total number of readings was but it was definitely more than 4 (I want to say, perhaps 8).
I’ve also seen at least 3-4 RC Tenebrae services scheduled this week (I wanted to go Monday night but had a conflict so probably going tomorrow) and all of them begin in the evening and end in the dark.
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commenter
Guest
EC parish?FontgombaultMonks:
FWIW, we still use the 12 Gospel reading at noon on Good Friday in my EC parish (and most others, I believe)
hawk
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dochawk
Guest
Eastern Catholic.
Specifically, the sui juris Metropolia of Pittsburgh.
FWIW, our metropolitan is for some purposes the highest ranking Catholic clergyman on the continent, being the head of the only sui juris church here.
hawk
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phil19034
Guest
4? The post 1955 Easter Vigil had less readings than the current Easter Vigil?
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phil19034
Guest
I know one thing was that the Easter Vigil was during the day, not at night. And the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday was during the day too.
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Spyridon
Guest
I went to an FSSP EF Parish for Holy Thursday and they used the pre-1955 ritual and the Mass started at 7pm
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semper_catholicus
Guest
I feel like this question would only interest a very select group of people.
I hears about this a couple weeks before Holy Week this year, and I didn’t know what the difference was between pre 1955 and post. I’ve only come to start to have an idea of what the differences are.
In doing this, I’ve discovered that Novus Ordo Holy Week is more like pre 1955 than post 1955.
I hears about this a couple weeks before Holy Week this year, and I didn’t know what the difference was between pre 1955 and post. I’ve only come to start to have an idea of what the differences are.
In doing this, I’ve discovered that Novus Ordo Holy Week is more like pre 1955 than post 1955.
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phil19034
Guest
I can’t speak to that. All I know is that before Pope Pius XII, both The Lord’s Supper and the Easter Vigil were during the day (if not during the morning)phil19034:
I went to an FSSP EF Parish for Holy Thursday and they used the pre-1955 ritual and the Mass started at 7pm
Yes, and this is my main objection to the practices pre-1955. I have no issue with the rites, although I have no issue with the 1955 or even 1970 rites either.Spyridon:
I can’t speak to that. All I know is that before Pope Pius XII, both The Lord’s Supper and the Easter Vigil were during the day (if not during the morning)phil19034:
I went to an FSSP EF Parish for Holy Thursday and they used the pre-1955 ritual and the Mass started at 7pm
If they use the pre-1955 rites, fine, folded chasubles and all. But keep the times proper. No return, whatsoever to an Easter Vigil in the morning.
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phil19034
Guest
After thinking about this some more I think this has to do with the communion fastphil19034:
I went to an FSSP EF Parish for Holy Thursday and they used the pre-1955 ritual and the Mass started at 7pm
Before 1955, the communion fast was from midnight until mass; so if the Easter vigil and the Lord’s Supper were both at night that would require a communion fast from midnight all the way on until mass each day. Which would then basically require fasting Thursday Friday and Saturday.
Because the communion fast is set by Canon law and not the liturgy, I believe this is why the the pre-1955 mass can be at night.
Also, it used to be required for everyone to fast on Holy Saturday until the start of the Easter Vigil (today, it’s only recommend, not required)
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Spyridon
Guest
You know what? That makes the most sense and I suspect that’s exactly the reason.
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OraLabora
Guest
If it is, it is proof of the need for liturgical reform. When rules get piled upon rules without regard for the impact, you end up with twisted logic like a Vigil in the morning and Lauds being celebrated in the evening. Granted the celebration of Tenebrae required Lauds and Matins in the evening. But they could have simply altered that by combining Tenebrae, with slight modifications, with Vespers attached to Matins as anticipated Matins has always been allowed. It would have made much more sense.
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commenter
Guest
At least some parishes, decades ago, in my city would have Easter Vigil at, say, 6 AM. The idea is that you are awaiting sunrise. That makes as much sense as holding it at night. Dark when you go into church, light when you come out.
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
6 am on Easter Sunday, or Holy Saturday? Like a Protestant Easter sunrise service, maybe.
Not six am on Holy Saturday no.porthos11:
At least some parishes, decades ago, in my city would have Easter Vigil at, say, 6 AM. The idea is that you are awaiting sunrise. That makes as much sense as holding it at night. Dark when you go into church, light when you come out.
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KMG
Guest
Bugnini and his band of merry men got it wrong in the 50s, mostly because of a mistaken notion that the prophecies of the Vigil = a primitive Matins (they didn’t).
If you wanted to be “authentic”, you’d start the Vigil “after None”, i.e., at perhaps 4pm. It takes about 4 hours in full, and ends with the abbreviated Vespers.
Paschal Matins and Lauds then = the midnight service, or very early in the morning, whatever.
If you wanted to be “authentic”, you’d start the Vigil “after None”, i.e., at perhaps 4pm. It takes about 4 hours in full, and ends with the abbreviated Vespers.
Paschal Matins and Lauds then = the midnight service, or very early in the morning, whatever.
C
commenter
Guest
6 AM Easter Sunday. Not specifically Protestant, though they might do the same.
In theory, that’s not a problem, IF the service actually ended before daybreak on Easter Sunday.Loud-living-dogma:
6 AM Easter Sunday. Not specifically Protestant, though they might do the same.
The glaring issue with the pre-1955 schedules was that the Easter Vigil took place on Holy Saturday morning, so that by noon of Holy Saturday, it was already Easter. Holy Saturday is a day of deep mourning, and the proper time for the Easter Vigil is Holy Saturday night.
I have no issue with properly approved pre-1955 rites themselves, but for crying out loud, keep the proper times: Thursday evening, Friday afternoon, Saturday night. IF pre-55 people insist on moving the services even to their original morning schedules, that’s a line I would not cross, and I would hope the Church withdraws the permission and go back to the 1955 forms.
By the way, there is really nothing wrong with the 1955 forms, except perhaps the relatively small number of readings for the Easter Vigil. What people really harp about is the revisions’ association with Archbishop Bugnini.
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KMG
Guest
Saturday evening is the proper time; it was a Vesperal liturgy, not a nighttime one, commencing after None with the lucernarium done anciently before Vespers, and including Vespers as part of the service.
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