Pre-beatification?

[didymus]

Not sure this is the right forum but here goes:

What is the status of holy persons who have a cult within the Church but no official status?

I’m thinking in particular of a local saint, Bl. Kateri Tekewitha. She died in 1680 and people have been dedicated to her for ages but I was shocked to find out she hadn’t been beatified until 1980. So what was her status before that? Were prayers seeking her intercession, um, kosher?

I Googled Kateri and found a couple St. Kateri parishes – they must be very optimistic about her cause!

Btw, if you’re ever travelling in upstate New York, check out the North American Martyrs’ Shrine at Auriesville and/or the Kateri Shrine at Fonda – they’re only a few miles apart.

 

[baltobetsy]

didymus:

Were prayers seeking her intercession, um, kosher?

We can pray privately to anyone for their intercession. When holy people die, devotion springs up almost immediately. When the cause for beatification is begun, sometimes prayers are published and labeled for private use only. Bishop Fulton Sheen comes to mind, as well as Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa. People pray for favors though their intercession; many report the favors received to the offices promoting their causes for sainthood, and eventually some are investigated and used as the official miracles in the process of beatification/canonization. Once a person is beatified, public devotion is permitted.

Betsy

 

[didymus]

baltobetsy:

We can pray privately to anyone for their intercession. When holy people die, devotion springs up almost immediately. When the cause for beatification is begun, sometimes prayers are published and labeled for private use only. Bishop Fulton Sheen comes to mind, as well as Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa. People pray for favors though their intercession; many report the favors received to the offices promoting their causes for sainthood, and eventually some are investigated and used as the official miracles in the process of beatification/canonization. Once a person is beatified, public devotion is permitted.

Betsy

Thanks for the explanation but I have a follow-up – where does “venerable” fit in?
Someone posted a website about Matt Talbot, an Irish alcoholic whose Cause is pending. The site says he was declared venerable in 1973. None of the sites I’ve visited about Bl. Kateri make any mention of her being declared venerable prior to beatification.

 

[LSK]

I don’t think Bl. Kateri was ever declare venerable - I could be wrong. I believe Matt was declared venerable because his is a more ‘modern’ cause, in that his holiness was recognized because he overcame such a horrid disease through dedication to Jesus.

That’s just my opinion, of course - so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[baltobetsy]

Here is a link to information about the process of canonization. I think the title “venerable” is given when the person is declared “The Servant of God.” It’s an early step in the process, before beatification (which requires a miracle) and canonization (which requires another miracle). The title “Venerable” indicates that the person lived the virtues to a heroic degree.

Betsy

 

[jblair]

** Here are but a few references to the sequence to sainthood using Matt Talbot as an example.
**

**“Beatification, Canonization, and Sainthood”
**

**As indicated in the title of this resource center, the word, “Venerable” is used. Some may ask what this word means in the Roman Catholic Church.
**

**

****In November, 1931, Archbishop Byrne of Dublin, Ireland opened an inquiry into the alleged claims to holiness of Matt Talbot. The Vatican began their official inquiry in 1947, and Matt was noted as “A Servant of God.” In October, 1975, Pope Paul VI declared him to be “Venerable,” the second stage in the process of canonization. A physical miracle will be required for him to be declared, “Blessed.”

** **In order to learn more about the meaning of beatification, canonization, and sainthood, some resources are listed:

** Vatican website, with new procedures in the rite of beatification.
Vatican website, with new procedures

**New Advent Catholic encyclopedia provides a helpful discussion of beatification and canonization, beginning with its history.
** newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm

This very readable article briefly notes the types of saints, types of virtues, titles of candidates, requirements for miracles, and the beatification and canonization processes: overcomeproblems.com/saints.htm

**This article addresses those individuals who might be more or  less likely to be canonized and does mention Matt  Talbot:

**http://www.stthomasirondequoit.com/SaintsAlive/id697.htm

 **Wikipedia provides extensive discussion and links about beatification, canonization, and sainthood. (Beware, however, that anyone can edit the content.)** [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization)


 **Stages of Canonization in the Roman Catholic Church (Wikipedia)**

Servant of God → Venerable → Blessed → Saint

**An excellent book on this topic is, “Making Saints: How the Catholic Church determines who becomes a saint, who doesn’t, and why” (1990) by Kenneth Woodward. **This book can be found in many USA public libraries.

 

[Todd_Winkels]

I wish I could choose a “Venerable” status saint for a patron saint, as Father Solanus Casey is very helpful.

 

[Belle10]

A little off-topic, but does anyone know how to find out the status of someone who is being “investigated” or whatever you call it for sainthood? (I’m not sure if any of the above links would be correct.) The person I’m interested in is Elisabeth Leseur, a French woman who has been called a “married St. Therese.” She kept diaries and after her death her husband, an atheist, not only converted because of her writings (and prayers of intercession, no doubt), but became a Catholic priest!! Her “case” was opened in the early 1990s I believe, and I guess nothing has happened, or we would’ve heard about it, right?

I totally agree with the OP: definitely check out the North American Martyrs’ Shrine at Auriesville if you can – it’s wonderful! (I haven’t been to the Kateri Shrine, but plan to go this summer.)