Pre-Cana Class Rant

[mandajane]

My FH and I are working up to the Latin Mass at our very traditional parish, so it’s good. The issue is the Pre-Cana program is run by the archdiocese, it’s not a multi-class thing, it’s one, all-day class on a saturday. You get a certificate at the end that you give to your pastor, showing you took the class and are “allowed” to get married. There were no priests or deacons involved in running the class, other than a priest coming in to say hello for 5 minutes, then leaving again. The class was instructed by a couple that had been married for 4 years, with no children. There were 40 couples in the class, and there was no one on one time. They said very plainly in the information before hand that late arrivals would have to reschedule, but people were showing up 2 and 3 hours late (to an 8 hour class) and accepted just fine. I really felt like everyone was treating this class as a formality.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My FH and I are working up to the Latin Mass at our very traditional parish, so it’s good. The issue is the Pre-Cana program is run by the archdiocese, it’s not a multi-class thing, it’s one, all-day class on a saturday. You get a certificate at the end that you give to your pastor, showing you took the class and are “allowed” to get married. There were no priests or deacons involved in running the class, other than a priest coming in to say hello for 5 minutes, then leaving again. The class was instructed by a couple that had been married for 4 years, with no children. There were 40 couples in the class, and there was no one on one time. They said very plainly in the information before hand that late arrivals would have to reschedule, but people were showing up 2 and 3 hours late (to an 8 hour class) and accepted just fine. I really felt like everyone was treating this class as a formality.

Unfortunately, it does sound like that is what it is. Just a hoop to jump through. I would at least write a letter to the Bishop, or whatever assistant is in charge of that program, with a copy to the Bishop. And if you don’t get a response, write again. Or, as an alternative, if you have a good, holy priest, you might discuss the issue with him and ask him how you should proceed. It could be that he will want to discuss this with his superiors as well.

And people wonder why so many Catholics end up divorced and applying for annulments!

 

[Debora123]

At our precana we too were the only non cohabitating couple.

But the people who were hosting the event definitely stuck to Church teaching on everything and had an NFP expert come and give a talk on how it works etc.

We did play games though. Those were fun.

 

[coachdennis]

I’m especially disturbed that this is a diocese run program, especially since in our area there has been a push to have the same unified program throughout the diocese using only approved materials. Right now, some parishes have locally very good programs and very bad programs. The goal of the unified program to make all the programs uniform, but if the end result is mediocrity – then what’s the point?

Many years ago, a teacher I had on the New Testament was a priest on the marriage tribunal who told us this story. He was attending an archdiocesan reflection day for priests and during lunch the other priests kept asking him and criticizing him about the high number of annulments. He was big, burly man who took no cr*p from anyone just said, “Hey, as long as you guys marry anything that comes through the door without any preparations…” Ended the lunch discussion.

 

[Debora123]

I agree: talk to the bishop. Then go and find a traditional group Latin Mass group and enjoy being around Catholics again. God bless you both.

Ummmm… :ehh:

 

[coachdennis]

I agree: talk to the bishop. Then go and find a traditional group Latin Mass group and enjoy being around Catholics again. God bless you both.

People who attend non -Latin Masses are Catholics too. This is a non-constructive statement, and IMO, quite uncharitable and unnecessary

 

[mandajane]

I don’t think they intended to come off as uncharitable, I think they just meant that those who attend a Latin mass are much more likely to be “hard-liners” like me than those who attend english masses.

 

[coachdennis]

I don’t think they intended to come off as uncharitable, I think they just meant that those who attend a Latin mass are much more likely to be “hard-liners” like me than those who attend english masses.

Hardliner? Better Catholics? More orthodox? What exactly are you trying to say?

We’re on your side and agree you should discuss this with the pastor and higher-ups , in case you didn’t notice that.

Yeah, us English Mass goers actually care about proper catechesis for reception of sacraments.

Sheesh!

 

[Debora123]

Hardliner? Better Catholics? More orthodox? What exactly are you trying to say?

We’re on your side and agree you should discuss this with the pastor and higher-ups , in case you didn’t notice that.

Yeah, us English Mass goers actually care about proper catechesis for reception of sacraments.

Sheesh!

 

[mandajane]

Hardliner? Better Catholics? More orthodox? What exactly are you trying to say?

We’re on your side and agree you should discuss this with the pastor and higher-ups , in case you didn’t notice that.

Yeah, us English Mass goers actually care about proper catechesis for reception of sacraments.

Sheesh!

I am sorry you are taking offense to what I said. I am aware you’re “on my side” and thankful for that. When I say “hard liner” I mean someone who is not a Cafeteria Catholic. I am well aware that there are PLENTY of hard liners at the English masses. ALL I am saying is that one is more likely to meet a Cafeteria Catholic at an English Mass than a Latin one. I am not making a value judgement on what type of mass anyone goes to, or saying that because someone chooses the english mass over the latin means they are ‘better’ in any way.

 

[jmcrae]

I am sorry you are taking offense to what I said. I am aware you’re “on my side” and thankful for that. When I say “hard liner” I mean someone who is not a Cafeteria Catholic. I am well aware that there are PLENTY of hard liners at the English masses. ALL I am saying is that one is more likely to meet a Cafeteria Catholic at an English Mass than a Latin one.

You can meet all kinds of heretics at a Latin Mass, too. Just because the language is incomprehensible, doesn’t make the people who speak it “more holy.”

 

[amandamary]

Your thread is going off track a little. I would go to your pastor and bishop and tell them the specific offenses. All of these things were discussed at ours too and I do remember it being very true to church teaching. However, our program was completely revamped 3 or 4 years ago when it was deemed “too touchy feely” and not challenging married couples to find God’s plan for their marriage. I actually think that was the name of the program…God’s Plan for a Joy-Filled Marriage…it was based on JP2’s Theology of the Body.

 

[Auntie_A]

I don’t think they intended to come off as uncharitable, I think they just meant that those who attend a Latin mass are much more likely to be “hard-liners” like me than those who attend english masses.

This is indeed what I thought and indeed it has been my experience, with no intention of offending anyone who attends the Mass in the English language. While I have found people in the Novus Ordo masses who still remember we are Catholic, I definitely have had better luck with the Latin Mass folks: the people that I have found in the Latin Mass communities have demonstrated consistent reverence and respect for Catholic doctrine and practices.

My past experience has been that of trying to find someone in the Church who can register my Catholic values rather than question them as if they were extinct. I think that has been behind the OP’s rant as well. “Giving up” on the rules of the Church because others have given up is my idea of a slow hell.

Apologies again if I offended.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

The form of the Mass has nothing to do with the OPs concern. And she should not simply find a comfortable place to attend Mass after her wedding and leave the problem in addressed.

OP please find out who is in charge of the program at the diocesean level and speak to him/her. Since you are concerned about what happens to the evaluations, you can also talk to the instructors directly. Be polite. Be charitable. But do speak up.

Also be conscious that since the couples in question are all getting married that the discussion in class should be focused on behavior in marriage and how the bills get paid does count. The most important place for a discussion about pre-martial sexual behavior is in youth and young adult groups.

 

[PatriceA]

I am at a loss for words. Today my FH and I took our all day pre-cana class and I am flabbergasted by the amount of misinformation and reinforcement of horrible catechization that went on.

This class was listed as being for “non co-habitating couples”. My FH and I were the only couple there that were not co-habitating. Whatever, no real big deal in my opinion. We all need a pre-cana class requirement. So most of it was basic stuff we expected, until they got to the co-habitation, pre-marital sex, and NFP portion. I’m just going to list off the things that shocked me.

Cohabitation:
-The class was told that the church didn’t like it if you co-habitated, but you do what you have to do.
-**They spent a lot of time recommending ways to make co-habitating more like living apart (seperate bedrooms, do something different to denote the change when you’re married, etc)
**
Pre-Marital Sex
-This entire section was passed off as a joke. The male pre-cana instructor said “The Church frowns on pre-marital sex, but…” then he laughed, and half the room laughed too.

NFP
-The female pre-cana instructor spent 20 minutes trying to explain the Sympto-Thermal Method, the whole time referring to it as “the Rhythm Method” and the hand out she gave us was about the Billings Method.
-English was not her first language, so I get how she might be confused, but I feel like this is something that should have been like… 1000% clear.
-She then said “It’s against Church teaching to use birth control, but you do what you have to do to make sure you decide how many children you have and when. The Church understands.”

I was flabbergasted. They spent more time on fun little “getting to know you” games, than they did on anything of substance. How can we be surprised when people don’t follow Church teaching if, even in the PRE-CANA CLASS, they are not being given correct information. It was clear a lot of these couples were very poorly catechized. Quite a few at my table were saying how they were only having a Catholic wedding because mom/grandma wanted one, and they didn’t believe in this stuff. (insert laugh from rest of the table while FH and I look on in shock)

I don’t know what to do. On the feedback form I wrote about the inaccuracies that were presented, but the pre-cana coordinators collected them, and apparently take them home, so who knows if anyone in charge of the program will hear anything.

I wanted to point out the bolded part above. I know it was probably disconcerting to have this subject come up in a pre-cana class, but it sounds like the leaders tried to address the situation as best as they could. Sadly, there are many couples that are living together, its a fact. At least the leaders of your class tried to show the couples that they need to address the situation as best they could and find a way to stop pretending they are already married. Living together as brother and sister before the wedding ceremony is a valid suggestion when couples are already co-habitating.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

My FH and I are working up to the Latin Mass at our very traditional parish, so it’s good. The issue is the Pre-Cana program is run by the archdiocese, it’s not a multi-class thing, it’s one, all-day class on a saturday. You get a certificate at the end that you give to your pastor, showing you took the class and are “allowed” to get married. There were no priests or deacons involved in running the class, other than a priest coming in to say hello for 5 minutes, then leaving again. The class was instructed by a couple that had been married for 4 years, with no children. There were 40 couples in the class, and there was no one on one time. They said very plainly in the information before hand that late arrivals would have to reschedule, but people were showing up 2 and 3 hours late (to an 8 hour class) and accepted just fine. I really felt like everyone was treating this class as a formality.

This sounds * like our program, minus half the instructors and the parts where they actually discouraged cohabitation. Due to the missing instructors, ours lasted just over 4 hours, and some people missed about half of that. Like someone else mentioned, we took a compatibility test but we were told to skip the parts that weren’t covered in the class so ours were only half complete (we both did fairly well on the half we took).

One thing I like about our current priest is that he takes pre-Cana very seriously. I don’t know if the archdiocese still offers the class we took, but even if they do, our priest doesn’t utilize it. He insists on a 6-month program during which he expects both the bride & groom to attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. He meets with the couples regularly and has serious conversations with them about everything they cover in their classes. He’s had some people who skip every meeting, don’t show up for some of the classes and miss most of the Masses. He’s refused to marry more than a couple of them. I’ve told him a few times that I wish my wife and I had been given the same preparation.*

 

[PatriceA]

This sounds * like our program, minus half the instructors and the parts where they actually discouraged cohabitation. Due to the missing instructors, ours lasted just over 4 hours, and some people missed about half of that. Like someone else mentioned, we took a compatibility test but we were told to skip the parts that weren’t covered in the class so ours were only half complete (we both did fairly well on the half we took).

One thing I like about our current priest is that he takes pre-Cana very* seriously. I don’t know if the archdiocese still offers the class we took, but even if they do, our priest doesn’t utilize it. He insists on a 6-month program during which he expects both the bride & groom to attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. He meets with the couples regularly and has serious conversations with them about everything they cover in their classes. He’s had some people who skip every meeting, don’t show up for some of the classes and miss most of the Masses. He’s refused to marry more than a couple of them. I’ve told him a few times that I wish my wife and I had been given the same preparation.

We too met with the priest on a regular basis, but that was an “option” that we chose. Our pre-cana class though was pretty much like the OP described, only one Saturday afternoon for 3 hours. It was a joke. This was 15 years ago, seems like not much has changed overall from the various people that have posted on CAF the past couple of years.

 

[russet1]

You can meet all kinds of heretics at a Latin Mass, too. Just because the language is incomprehensible, doesn’t make the people who speak it “more holy.”

I don’t think the TLM or has anything to do with the subject at hand. However, the language is not incomprehensible.
Why would you suggest that?

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

That sounds very similar to the diocesan Pre-Cana program that we endured many years ago. At our pre-Cana all-day retreat, it was an 8 hour program but there was only really 5 hours of programming… and barely anything of substance was discussed in those 5 hours. We spent 45 minutes introducing ourselves to the group. We got a few talks about loving each other and knowing each other’s love languages, etc. We did get a relatively accurate description of the mechanics of NFP, but it was presented in a manner that suggested the Church didn’t really expect us to avoid artificial birth control. The only mention of cohabitation was that the Church discourages it, but that the Church wouldn’t refuse to marry you if you were cohabiting. In the end, there was virtually nothing of any substance to prepare couples for marriage.

In our case, we spoke to our priest, and he encouraged us to write to the bishop, and he said he would seek out other marriage-prep options for couples from his parish. I did write to the bishop, but never received a response…

 

[GangGreen]

My Pre-Cana will be in the fall. The priest that we talked to pretty much told us that a lot of people like the first session, but the second session which discusses more of the theological aspects tended to be disliked and that YMMV depending on the instructor. So it should be interesting.

I wonder how much the Church actually controls these things. I mean you would think that Pre-Cana would be a great time to provide some good instruction on the Church’s actual teachings to couples considering that there are many people who haven’t been to Mass in ages who decide to get married in Church and have to go through all of this. I think a big part of it is that they try too hard not to offend people who live sinful lifestyles.

In a way I can see why they would shrug off the whole co-habitation and premartial sex issue because once they get married those things won’t be issues anymore. However, the whole contraception thing baffles me. That is one sin that continues to be a sin after you marry, no matter what.

The Church that we’re getting married at actually has its own NFP instructor (Creighton model), so we’re required to go to at least a one hour session of that and then if we want to go beyond that we’d have to pay for each additional session (8 sessions over 12 months total cost is $320).