Pre-Cana experience... diappointing

[RoseMary131]

I’ll tell him to put on his big boy pants and suck it up. Worst case scenario: sit in the back row and play Angry Birds on his phone or vent to me during the break.

Write your questions down and take them to the priest at your parish. You want to know the true teachings of the Church regarding the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. You want to both have full knowledge of Church teachings so that you are truly entering into the Sacrament.

 

[aemcpa]

I’ll tell him to put on his big boy pants and suck it up. Worst case scenario: sit in the back row and play Angry Birds on his phone or vent to me during the break.

 

[upnorth123]

Oh boy! I’m trying to figure out who you are at these boards! Lol it turned into a debate over NFP and not trying to calm my fiancé down.

Maybe I should’ve stick to the answers over there. I can vent a little more.

I’m pretty sure I’m the same username over there. The CA forums are intense but more theologically sound IMHO.

 

[BeeRod]

Don’t forget Candy Crush Saga.

Is it bad that I needed to vent here too?

 

[aemcpa]

Don’t forget Candy Crush Saga.

Is it bad that I needed to vent here?

The fact that you care enough to vent here shows that you care about having a Catholic marriage.

 

[underacloud]

In his defense, I will say his issue with NFP is why it is used but according to the couple it’s 100%. They never stated about the risks and whatnot or actual proof of that statistic. Right now we’re not doing anything sexually because I’m off the Pill. But when we get married are we going to rely on NFP? No. We want to let it happen naturally. If we conceive then we’ll be happy. If not, we’ll keep on trying. If we want to take a break from trying, we’ll find other ways to express our love without sex. But we’re not going to take temperatures and check mucus on a daily basis.

Abstinence by mutual agreement is perfectly acceptable. So I’m not sure why this is such an issue?

Is there more to it? The question your fiance asked about NFP for irregular cycles is more along the lines of trying to justify using contraception because NFP is unreliable. If you and your fiance are comfortable with abstinence in place of NFP, there really is no issue at all. If you wish to use contraception, then the issue is more of a concern; you would be in direct defiance of the Church, so the couple’s question about why you would want to be married in the Church is relevant, although they may have expressed it badly or been rude.

The advice to talk to the priest is good. As another poster said, couples running these classes are volunteers and not theologians, trained NFP teachers, etc, so you may need to explore more specific questions you have via other avenues.

 

[7armyrugrats]

There are several different types of NFP, not just temps, mucous, etc. And it is FOR women with irregular cycles. Women who are very regular can use the old calendar rhythm quite effectively simply because their cycles are regular. And what you said about avoiding sex and finding other ways to show your love for each other is NFP. No sex during fertile time=no pregnancy. There are various monitors available also for NFP use that are quite effective as well. If intercourse does not occur during the fertile time in a woman’s cycle it is 100% effective–no egg, no conception. I think this is what the couple was trying to tell your future husband. At least I hope so. Not having been there I can not say for sure.

It sounds to me that you and you soon to be spouse do intend to be open to life, much more open than most newly weds even. You state that you intend to use no contraception including NFP, that is beautiful and should be admired. If the time comes that pregnancy needs to be avoided than you opt for total abstinence–truly the ONLY FOR SURE 100% METHOD THERE IS. I think you should be applauded for this (unless I was mistaken about what you were saying/meaning), and I wish more couple would share your openess to life.

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage!

 

[stephe1987]

Nobody is a model except Jesus and Mary. Everyone else is a sinner. The important thing is to go to Confession and try your best not sin again. When you fall, it’s time for another Confession. Life is a process of growing in virtue and growing closer to God.

Sexual sin is especially dangerous because not only is it a mortal sin, it is also addictive which makes it difficult to stop once started. But all sins can be overcome with God’s grace. Many people have fallen away and later returned to God after sexual sin. We need to pray for all couples who are sinning against and/or struggling with chastity.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I think that you are dealing with some very important issues that you should think through before considering marriage. It doesn’t sound as though you are ready. You don’t want surprises after you have married and had children.

Make a list of questions and talk to your pastor.

 

[Dorothy]

Tell that to other Catholics who had sex before marriage. We stopped the day I was confirmed into the church almost 2 months ago. The last thing we both need is for people to judge us because we’re not the model catholic couple. We’re trying to but left feeling discouraged. Sorry I’m getting too defensive or emotional. I don’t like being put on the spot.

I commend you for doing the right thing when you were confirmed!

---

There are good reasons for the moral rules of the Church. The Magisterium on faith and morals, is the voice of Christ speaking to us.

Prayer and the Sacraments make all things possible! Married couples are there to help each other attain salvation, through the graces of Holy Matrimony. With God all things are possible.

Other couples engaging in sex before marriage and not open to doing the right thing are risking their immortal souls.

When a married couple puts God first in their lives they will have many blessings, and the necessary strength to cope with many trials.

 

[bzkoss236]

Nobody is ever required to use NFP. It’s only that if you want to avoid pregnancy, you aren’t allowed to use artificial birth control.

Not necessarily. NFP is also recommended by the Church for couples who are struggling to have children.

And remember, that birth control pills CAN be used for MEDICAL purposes.

 

[aemcpa]

Not necessarily. NFP is also recommended by the Church for couples who are struggling to have children.

And remember, that birth control pills CAN be used for MEDICAL purposes.

None of this contradicts what I said.

 

[mountee]

Interesting responses but I have to tell you that my husband would have been the same way and I would have had to calm him down too. We went to pre-Cana as a Catholic (me) and a non-Catholic couple over 40 years ago. He sat through it, signed the papers he wold raise the kids Catholic and off we went. I assure you that he would have had the same questions and concerns as yours had he been Catholic and I would have had to do something to talk him down. The problem is that it really takes an effort to learn and understand what the Catholic Church is about on a wide variety of issues. Then it takes a great deal of faith and commitment to move forward on those beliefs. Together you can do it but it is not ever easy. Fortunately, you are in the very beginning of this process and with time and love and faith you will work it out, I will pray for you to achieve the place you need to be together. Don’t be discouraged.

 

[BeeRod]

Darn, I have so many to reply to. So bare with me everyone.

It sounds to me that you and you soon to be spouse do intend to be open to life, much more open than most newly weds even. You state that you intend to use no contraception including NFP, that is beautiful and should be admired. If the time comes that pregnancy needs to be avoided than you opt for total abstinence–truly the ONLY FOR SURE 100% METHOD THERE IS. I think you should be applauded for this (unless I was mistaken about what you were saying/meaning), and I wish more couple would share your openness to life.

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage!

I think what he was trying to debate with them is that the all these charts and checking stuff was the best method. We don’t want making love to be some sort of chore or duty. It should come naturally, a celebration of two people who love each other. Yes, there will be times couples would need to schedule sex because of daily life. But the point is to come into the bedroom (or wherever you are in the mood) and let it happen. I rather for us to conceive that way than looking at a chart to see if my mucus is good for baby making sex.

Trust me, we want to have kids after we’re married. If we decide after 2 kids we’re done, we’ll reconsider other methods but it’s up to us and God, not a couple shoving it down our throats.

Nobody is a model except Jesus and Mary. Everyone else is a sinner. The important thing is to go to Confession and try your best not sin again. When you fall, it’s time for another Confession. Life is a process of growing in virtue and growing closer to God.

Sexual sin is especially dangerous because not only is it a mortal sin, it is also addictive which makes it difficult to stop once started. But all sins can be overcome with God’s grace. Many people have fallen away and later returned to God after sexual sin. We need to pray for all couples who are sinning against and/or struggling with chastity.

I’ve already confessed that!

It doesn’t sound as though you are ready.

In what ways do you think we’re not? I mean we have plenty of time until the wedding but who’s to say we’re not ready when we had one bad experience at class.

I commend you for doing the right thing when you were confirmed!

I would feel guilty if I continued after that. Don’t get me wrong, I love being with my fiance. But sex is not the be all to end all, even though we miss it. In fact, since then our relationship grew stronger without it.

And remember, that birth control pills CAN be used for MEDICAL purposes.

I had to take it because of medical reasons (going through months at a time without my period). But I gained so much weight since being on the Pill, I decided to stop on my own. It also helped that I fess up at church.

Interesting responses but I have to tell you that my husband would have been the same way and I would have had to calm him down too. We went to pre-Cana as a Catholic (me) and a non-Catholic couple over 40 years ago. He sat through it, signed the papers he wold raise the kids Catholic and off we went. I assure you that he would have had the same questions and concerns as yours had he been Catholic and I would have had to do something to talk him down. The problem is that it really takes an effort to learn and understand what the Catholic Church is about on a wide variety of issues. Then it takes a great deal of faith and commitment to move forward on those beliefs. Together you can do it but it is not ever easy. Fortunately, you are in the very beginning of this process and with time and love and faith you will work it out, I will pray for you to achieve the place you need to be together. Don’t be discouraged.

It is a long process. We want to grow as people, as a couple, and as followers of Christ. There’s still questions that needs to be addressed. Better to ask than go with the motions and not learn anything.

I talked to my fiance this morning at breakfast and he decided he will continue the class. What made him change his mind? He want to continue to learn. If he had questions, he will ask our priest at our own time. We want to use that time to talk within ourselves, not beat a dead horse.

 

[RoseMary131]

Oh boy! I’m trying to figure out who you are at these boards! Lol it turned into a debate over NFP and not trying to calm my fiancé down.

Maybe I should’ve stick to the answers over there. I can vent a little more.

He really wants to marry me but he’s not sure if he wants to have it in church when he’s against a few things about the church. We spent 20 minutes in the parking lot, talking about what happened at the class through our tears.

When we decided to have it in church, we want to because we wanted God to bless our marriage. The last thing we wanted is for a couple to tell us we’re not good enough to have a church wedding because we didn’t completely agree with what they were preaching.

Do you mean the “debate” on this thread is over NFP and not trying to calm your fiancé down?

If that is what you mean, maybe this will help explain why the focus seems to be on natural and morals ways of spacing children that the Church understands as best for the our souls and not focused on you trying to calm your fiancé down while taking a Sacramental Prep program.

From your OP, this is what I see - but it can be a misunderstanding on my interpretation of the post. I write this not to offend you, but in hopes of helping you and your fiancé on this great journey in your faith life with the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Your dear fiancé is a cradle Catholic and an adult preparing to receive the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony from the Church.

The Diocese or parish has a program to prepare adults for receiving this Sacrament. A couple (possibly a volunteer couple who are not professionals in theology or teaching NFP) has accepted the call to share with engage couples the teachings of the Church on matters related to this Sacrament. They have a limited number of hours to present the material that the Diocese wants covered. In that time, they also need to allow for a certain time frame to answer questions. Maybe they were not prepared on how to answer questions quickly and with calmness when someone seemed to not be accepting of Church teaching.

I hope that when they left the Pre-Cana evening, they began to pray for the right words to help all the couples, but most especially praying for how to share Church teachings with you two. Maybe they even went to their priest or someone involved with the program at the diocese to ask for guidance on how to help your fiancé understand the Truths of the Church. There may be several people praying for you two right now (without knowing your names).

I am sure they were not trying to say that you two are not “good enough” for this Sacrament. Maybe after trying their best to present Church teaching, they felt at a loss as to why someone would want to receive the Sacrament if it seemed they did not believe all of Church teachings.

I am sorry that your fiancé had not already been taught some of these answers throughout his life as a cradle Catholic. The Church in the US recognizes that our parishes have done a poor job of properly catechizing. That is one reason it is so important that the Dioceses mandate couples receive proper teachings before receiving this Sacrament.

Our teens and young adults should be taught that sexual love is to be expressed only within Marriage and that it is always open to new life. It is a misconception that the Church wants couple to have more children than they can afford. Just as it is a misconception that the Church requires people to stay in a marriage that is unsafe and abusive. These small questions of your fiancé states that he has not already received this understanding before going to the Pre-Cana Class.

I pray that if your fiancé hears Church teaching that he does not “agree with” that he learns to listen using the gifts of the Holy Spirit he has received through Confirmation. I pray that he has the ability to listen and remain calm. There should be no need for you to help him be calm on learning the faith he professes.

You two want to focus on learning the Truths of the Church on this wonderful Sacrament you are asking the Church to receive. You should not be focused on how to calm this wonderful man who loves you so much when he has questions during a Sacramental Prep class. He should already be calm and at peace.

You two may experience other questions of faith throughout your lifetime with this Sacrament. You want to both know that each of you is interested in the Truth, the Fullness of the Faith as you prepare to live as one and prepare to teach your children the entire faith of the Church.

May God bless you both with peace. May God bless the Pre-Cana teaching couple with the gifts of finding the right words to answer all questions of those preparing for this Sacrament.

 

[BeeRod]

To RoseMary131

It was more about calming him down and just listen instead of asking question after question. Yeah questions are good but it was one after the other. What happened was I felt like he’s beating a dead horse. They’re not going to change their opinions overnight. Yes, NFP was one topic but it was other things that triggered him. I don’t know exactly what was in his head but all I can do as his fiancee is to see what I can do to help him.

So he decided in the end that he’s going to continue to attend and just write down what he want to ask. And if he gets another trigger, I told him to either talk to me during the break or play with his iPhone games to let things out.

 

[fpt]

The methods for knowing the fertile moments and the infertile moments of cycle of wife are in favor of the best knowing of the feminity by the wife herself but also by the husband.

Wife and husband know better and better the female cycle, it is a good thing for their marriage. It is a good mean for the conscientisation (awareness) of the potential fecundity of the marital act.

The NFP is only the fact of getting information of the fertile moments or infertile moments. A wife has to know herself, a wife has to give information to her husband about her potential fecundity/fertility.
The marital act in materiality and in intentionality has to be very human (the fact of making one flesh in the human fashion with sexual cooperation, with the conscience of the potential fecundity – responsible procreation, responsible paternity, responsible maternity, responsible management of marital act --);

The NFP is for helping the future management of the size of the family, in the catholic way, it is a mean for not being imprudent. The Catholic Church is wise, prudent, natural, moral, objective and realistic in her teaching.

 

[Lorelei12]

I am actually a bit jealous of your pre-cana class, because we barely touched on sexual morality at all. It sounds like perhaps the couple volunteering were not as tactful as they should have been, and that is unfortunate. They may have been expecting to give information and not really prepared (or even qualified) to answer all of your fiancé’s questions. They probably should have referred you both to your priest. You mentioned above that you plan on going to the priest if you have further questions, and I think that is the best course of action.

Keep in mind that, as other posters have mentioned, the church never requires the use of NFP. However, it is good knowledge, even if you never plan on using it. You never know if you might have trouble getting pregnant, in which case it could prove very helpful. Or years from now, you might have reasons to avoid pregnancy and need to know when you are ovulating. Or maybe you begin having health problems and could use it as a tool to figure things out. If you ever do learn to chart, it’s really not as cumbersome as it sounds. I won’t pretend it’s romantic, but there are a lot of tools out there (apps, for instance) that make the whole thing much easier. So, while you and your husband-to-be might not plan on it, hopefully you both can just learn what you can, ask your priest questions you have, and tuck the information away in case you ever do find yourself needing it.

Something else- you mentioned that your fiancé really wants to marry you but “isn’t sure he wants to get married in the church when he’s against a few things in the church”. This is definitely something to be worked out before you get married. Though the couple’s question to him (“If you don’t agree with this, why are you getting married in the church?”) was probably inappropriate in its context, and rude too, it is still a good question to ask yourselves. It’s not about being “good enough” to have a church wedding or not. It’s about wanting one, truly wanting to be a part of the church and that means being faithful Catholics. Which is not to say that every one of us doesn’t struggle with Church teaching from time to time, both in understanding and in practice. That’s okay. Take Pre-Cana for what it is, but definitely talk to your priest and keep us discussions with your fiancé.

 

[Joe_5859]

Never let an imperfect Catholic scare you away from the Catholic faith. The Church was established by Christ and He promised to stand by Her till the end of time. Nonetheless, we are all sinners. It’s a guarantee that, the more time you spend around Catholics, the more likely you are to be offended by one. It will happen. But when it does, there’s no reason to bolt. Jesus is with us, even with all our imperfections.

Not everyone is gifted at veering off script and answering questions. I know it’s difficult, but try to give the NFP instructors the benefit of the doubt. They’re volunteering their time and passionate about living out the Church’s teaching on sexual morality. Those are good qualities to have. They just might not deal well with confrontation or difficult questions. Those are not-so-good qualities. But of course no one is perfect.

I would encourage you to talk this over with your priest. Priests are generally much more thoroughly-trained and have a better bed-side manner. So perhaps he can smooth things over and respond to your fiance’s questions.

God bless!

 

[Joe_5859]

I am actually a bit jealous of your pre-cana class, because we barely touched on sexual morality at all. It sounds like perhaps the couple volunteering were not as tactful as they should have been, and that is unfortunate. They may have been expecting to give information and not really prepared (or even qualified) to answer all of your fiancé’s questions. They probably should have referred you both to you priest. You mentioned above that you plan on going to the priest if you have further questions, and I think that is the best course of action.

Keep in mind that, as other posters have mentioned, the church never requires the use of NFP. However, it is good knowledge, even if you never plan on using it. You never know if you might have trouble getting pregnant, in which case it could prove very helpful. Or years from now, you might have reasons to avoid pregnancy and need to know when you are ovulating. Or maybe you begin having health problems and could use it as a tool to figure things out. If you ever do learn to chart, it’s really not as cumbersome as it sounds. I won’t pretend it’s romantic, but there are a lot of tools out there (apps, for instance) that make the whole thing much easier. So, while you and your husband-to-be might not plan on it, hopefully you both can just learn what you can, ask your priest questions you have, and tuck the information away in case you ever do find yourself needing it.

Something else- you mentioned that your fiancé really wants to marry you but “isn’t sure he wants to get married in the church when he’s against a few things in the church”. This is definitely something to be worked out before you get married. Though the couple’s question to him (“If you don’t agree with this, why are you getting married in the church?”) was probably inappropriate in its context, and rude too, it is still a good question to ask yourselves. It’s not about being “good enough” to have a church wedding or not. It’s about wanting one, truly wanting to be a part of the church and that means being faithful Catholics. Which is not to say that every one of us doesn’t struggle with Church teaching from time to time, both in understanding and in practice. That’s okay. Take Pre-Cana for what it is, but definitely talk to your priest and keep us discussions with your fiancé.

Very well put.

Yes, definitely look at knowledge of NFP as good knowledge to have. It’s not just the Catholic work-around for artificial birth control. It teaches you a great deal about fertility and the way it all works. It made it very easy for my wife and I to conceive. We knew exactly what days would work the best.

Up front, it can sound like a lot of work, but it’s really not once you get the hang of it. It takes 30 seconds in the morning to take the temperature and put a dot on a chart. And checking mucus just takes a few seconds at “bathroom break” time. It’s not time intensive at all, though it definitely felt that way when we were first learning it.

But that doesn’t mean you aren’t entitled to ask questions and get a better grasp on how it all works and why this approach is consistent with Catholic teaching whereas artificial contraception is not. Some NFP teachers are good at explaining the nuts and bolts of the process, but that doesn’t always translate well into explaining the moral theology behind it all.