Pre-Cana experience... diappointing

[agapewolf]

To RoseMary131

I don’t know exactly what was in his head but all I can do as his fiancee is to see what I can do to help him.

So he decided in the end that he’s going to continue to attend and just write down what he want to ask. And if he gets another trigger, I told him to either talk to me during the break or play with his iPhone games to let things out.

Sorry, this sounds like you are parenting a little boy.

 

[BeeRod]

Sorry, this sounds like you are parenting a little boy.

With all due respect, if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything. This is like the second time you said something nasty to me on this forum.

 

[agapewolf]

With all due respect, if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything. This is like the second time you said something nasty to me on this forum.

You didn’t have nice things to say about this couple teaching church teaching.

And it wasn’t nasty. It was an honest reaction to what you said. Telling you fiance to play on his iphone to let things out? To me, it was a nice thing to point it out to you. It sounds like there might be a few bigger issues to figure out.

 

[newbetx]

To RoseMary131

It was more about calming him down and just listen instead of asking question after question. Yeah questions are good but it was one after the other. What happened was I felt like he’s beating a dead horse. They’re not going to change their opinions overnight. Yes, NFP was one topic but it was other things that triggered him. I don’t know exactly what was in his head but all I can do as his fiancee is to see what I can do to help him.

So he decided in the end that he’s going to continue to attend and just write down what he want to ask. And if he gets another trigger, I told him to either talk to me during the break or play with his iPhone games to let things out.

Well playing with the iPhone is being disrespectful… But the rest is sound advice…

I haven’t seen it recommended yet, but I highly encourage you and your fiance to get the book our diocese uses to teach proper sexuality to our engaged couples. Christopher West’s The Good News About Sex and Marriage. This WILL explain far more than the couple can at this point since this things kinda got heated.

I assure you they are just wanting to look out for your best interest. I am here as a witness that using artificial birth control is one of the the best ways to ruin a marriage. Statistically, it just plays out. There are tons of experts here that use NFP and don’t have more children than they can manage.

Sex and Marriage. It’s way more than most people give it credit for these days. It can be for you the best thing ever if that is what you and your fiance want. Come back here with your questions.

I suggest going through the book chapter at a time and discuss it. But as Christopher West says, “take all of it or none of it.” Would you like to “divorce proof” your marriage? There is a way. Theology of the Body is a key part of it. Please please please look into it!

Please PM me if you are struggling getting your answers. I’ll do my best for you, I promise! Yes, it’s that important!

 

[7armyrugrats]

I can assure you, as a homeschooling mom and Sunday school teacher, there are few things more annoying and disrespectful as little boys and girls playing or texting on cell phones. Interrupting during a presentation at least shows us that people are paying attention, even though they should hold questions until a break in the presentation or the time reserved for questions. These people are on a schedule and have put time and effort into their class. Most likely they are volunteers and have had to arrange for child care and/or time from work during preparation for the class and also during the actual presentation. Ask any middle or high school teacher what they think about the phone thing. Ask a cashier, doctor, pharmacist or customer service professional about it. Not to mention the fact that your fiancé is a grown man who should have the maturity to know this and also to be able to control himself without needing to “blow off steam.” I hope this is not common for him as it points to a lifetime of trouble.

 

[RoseMary131]

We were going to do EE, but he didn’t want to because he feels they will place a stranger in the same room as him.

I guess his biggest issue during the class is that the couple see things as only black and white while he sees there’s some gray areas here and there that needed to address.

When we married, our marriage prep was much different than today. We meet as a couple several times with the deacon which we enjoyed.

Today, you are blessed with both this Pre-Cana and Engaged Encounter. Pray about actually attending both. It truly is a blessing to have this offered to you and your wonderful fiancé.

Pray and ask him to put aside a fear about sharing a room with a man he does not know. God is in charge of the weekends and your fiancé should not allow such a small concern as who his room mate for the evening will be. Chances are as a parent, he will one day have the opportunity to help with a Youth Convention or Scout outing in which he will room/tent with other dads from other places.

Always help your dear fiancé to remember what is a “gray area” to him may very well be straight black and white by Church teachings. He wants to explore why the Church teaches as She does, not if its a gray area.

Tell that to other Catholics who had sex before marriage. We stopped the day I was confirmed into the church almost 2 months ago. The last thing we both need is for people to judge us… Sorry I’m getting too defensive or emotional. I don’t like being put on the spot.

You are to be commended in realizing sexual union outside of marriage was not in keeping close to God. Please do not feel you are being judged. You are a blessing to each other and following God’s plan for sexual love not only brings you closer to God, but to each other.

As you point out, many Catholics do not know or do not care to follow God’s law for sexual love. Sexual union is a re-newal of the wedding vows - each time. For those who are not married, there is no vow to re-new - just misguided sexual love. For those Catholics, they may want to defend themselves for disagreeing with the Church. Please do not feel someone speaking the Truth is a judgment of another’s action.

I think what he was trying to debate with them is that the all these charts and checking stuff was the best method. We don’t want making love to be some sort of chore or duty. It should come naturally, a celebration of two people who love each other.

… we want to have kids … If we decide after 2 kids we’re done, we’ll reconsider other methods but it’s up to us and God, not a couple shoving it down our throats.

I think you and he already recognize that a Pre-Cana class offered in a short course to several couples is not the best place to debate NFP which the Church so lovingly suggests as a way to learn the beauty of each woman’s own body.

Sexual love should never be a chore. I hope the Pre-Cana couple did not express sexual love as a chore with a chore chart. Women and their husbands learn so much about the workings of the woman’s body through the knowledge of NFP even if they choose not to chart. Women notice the subtle changes that appear physically and emotionally throughout the hormonal changes that continue through each cycle. Most women have no awareness of this rhythm. Coming off from artificial hormonal contraception, such as the pill, may take many months for the woman’s body to flow back to its natural state.

Recognizing that a woman’s emotions and physical changes are the most sexually receptive during her fertile state, really has a beauty in the design.

Although temperature and mucus may sound clinical, its a beauty of the way the woman’s body ebbs and flows each month. How wonderfully God created our bodies.

A couple uses a fertility chart to make a decision during the wife’s fertile time. “Do we want to express our love in a sexual union today knowing today may bring us the gift of a child?” If “Yes”, they openly share their sexual love with each other. If “no, today we have serious reason not to conceive”, they are thankful for the knowledge of the woman’s fertility and choose another form of expressing love besides sex.

Here you express a disconnect between the two of you and God’s Holy Church if by this you mean artificial contraception. “If we decide after 2 kids we’re done, we’ll reconsider other methods but it’s up to us and God, not a couple shoving it down our throats.”

When any of us as Catholics, decide we can follow a route not in line with the Holy Catholic Church, we have begun our own “protest” of the Church. Maybe I misunderstand and you did not mean that one day you may pick contraception for avoiding children.

Teaching the truth, even if its teach the truth over and over and over is not “shoving it down our throats.” You two picked to receive the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. The Pre-Cana teaching couple did not walk into your home and tell you what you must do. You attended the required class to learn what it is that you are embarking on when you ask the Church for this Sacrament.

During your wedding vows at God’s Holy Altar, when the priest or deacon ask of you, “Will you accept children lovingly from God?”, the two of you want to be honest with God, with yourselves, with the Church witness (the priest or deacon), and all of your friends who are hearing you express your vows. You want to have a resounding “Yes, we accept children lovingly from God”, not “we’ll consider other methods after a few children, but its up to us and God.”

May God continue to bless you and your fiancé.

 

[BeeRod]

For the record, I was being sarcastic about the iPhone comment. I know he won’t do that.

But the little boy comment was unnecessary.

I appreciate the advice here (and thank you all for this) but I will have to wait and see what happens at the next class. Maybe the next class will be better.

 

[Joe_5859]

For the record, I was being sarcastic about the iPhone comment. I know he won’t do that.

But the little boy comment was unnecessary.

I appreciate the advice here (and thank you all for this) but I will have to wait and see what happens at the next class. Maybe the next class will be better.

I would just encourage you and your fiance not to let a disappointing experience with regards to delivery turn you off of the message. There is great wisdom in the Catholic teaching on sex and marriage, and there are many good things about NFP. Not everyone does a good job getting that message across, unfortunately.

 

[agapewolf]

For the record, I was being sarcastic about the iPhone comment. I know he won’t do that.

But the little boy comment was unnecessary.

I appreciate the advice here (and thank you all for this) but I will have to wait and see what happens at the next class. Maybe the next class will be better.

It wasn’t unnecessary. You didn’t put any smilie or notation that you were being sarcastic. It came across as being perfectly serious. I wasn’t the only one who took you seriously.

 

[RoseMary131]

We want to grow as people, as a couple, and as followers of Christ. There’s still questions that needs to be addressed. Better to ask than go with the motions and not learn anything.

I talked to my fiance this morning at breakfast and he decided he will continue the class. What made him change his mind? He want to continue to learn. If he had questions, he will ask our priest at our own time. We want to use that time to talk within ourselves, not beat a dead horse

You both are very wise to desire to learn. What made him change his mind, may very well be the working of the Holy Spirit and prayer. Please don’t think any searching for truth is ever “beating a dead horse”. The Church stands firm because Truth is always Truth. You want to always be open to hearing the Holy Spirit.

It was more about calming him down and just listen instead of asking question after question. Yeah questions are good but it was one after the other. What happened was I felt like he’s beating a dead horse. They’re not going to change their opinions overnight. Yes, NFP was one topic but it was other things that triggered him. I don’t know exactly what was in his head but all I can do as his fiancee is to see what I can do to help him.

So he decided in the end that he’s going to continue to attend and just write down what he want to ask. And if he gets another trigger, I told him to either talk to me during the break or play with his iPhone games to let things out.

If your dear fiancé has a problem understanding when to refrain from questions, it is good that you can help him to recognize the time and place to ask.

If he has a pattern of “beating a dead horse”, or getting stuck on a topic and wants to change this type of behavior, maybe you two can discuss how to suppress any issues he suffers from (OCD, autism spectrum, Aspergers) that causes him to not be able to naturally stop the questions.

Realize at the same time, if the Pre-Cana teaching couple is teaching Truth of the Church, then they are sharing Truth, not opinion. Truth does not change, so expecting the teaching couple to change (over night) is not really something that will happen.

Maybe he felt he needed to defend the idea that you two had been engaged in sexual activites, even though you have stopped and confessed this.

Maybe he felt offended about the permanence of Matriomony since he asked about a person leaving a marriage due to abuse. Maybe because of the pain you suffered in your first marriage which the Tribunal declared as not valid, he felt offended during the class.

Maybe he wanted to show that he saw negative effects from NFP even though he may know very little of what it entails.

Maybe he needed to defend the past use of the pill even though you two have confessed this.

Maybe he didn’t know that the pill can cause an abortion even though the mother never knew she conceived a beautiful child. Some people are very upset when they realize the pill works in several ways, including making the lining of uterus too thin to support the implantation of their newly conceived child, so their child dies through the abortifacient actions of the pill.

This would be very good points for you and him to discuss… why he felt so strongly about these area, why he sees some areas of Church teachings as gray, why it was so important to have all the answers in one evening instead of researching them on his own, why it brought him to tears if that is not his normal response.

Please do not be offended, but please do not bring an i-phone or other game device to this important class to be a distraction from the reality of attending this Sacramental Prep Class. Those offering of their time to teach (and often as volunteers) have spent a lot of time and prayer in preparing their talks. They deserve respect from adults.

Although it may seem like a simple thing, playing on the i-phone, it really is disrespectful to the other couples and the teaching couple.

I have heard volunteer NFP teaching couples express knowing the couples are texting each other under the table. I’ve also heard them say, some of the couples who seem to be the most uninterested in Church teaching, actually come to them and say, “We’re going off the pill. We’re refraining from sex until married. We’re going to embrace truly being open to life through NFP.”

My prayers are with you and your finance in your struggles with any Church teachings.

(I write to you as a friend. As you are new to the Church, I want to express to you the joy and blessings that God offers through the wisdom of the Church.)