Pre-marital relations NOT a mortal sin pre-Balt catechism?

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Rivera

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This is going to sound crazy. A Catholic friend just tried to convince me that pre-marital relations (where both parties are not married) were never considered a mortal sin prior to the Baltimore catechism. I asked for a source for this info but he was sketchy on it. Can anyone point me to a solid early church reference I can share with him to refute this? I tried to use the 10 Commandments, but he said that those only refer to adultery, so non-married people are exempted. Huh?

thanks,
nae
 
Well, lets see: seems that St. Paul talks about the sin of fornication… that ought to do for starters.

And if that doesn’t get it going, ask him for documentation stating that fornication was ok.
 
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Rivera:
This is going to sound crazy. A Catholic friend just tried to convince me that pre-marital relations (where both parties are not married) were never considered a mortal sin prior to the Baltimore catechism. I asked for a source for this info but he was sketchy on it. Can anyone point me to a solid early church reference I can share with him to refute this? I tried to use the 10 Commandments, but he said that those only refer to adultery, so non-married people are exempted. Huh?

thanks,
nae
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It more than just sounds crazy. Where do these people come up with this nonsense. The Catholic Church has always included pre-maritial relatoins in with adultery. And it is quite scriptural as well for it says in Matt 5 “If a man lusts after a woman he has committed adultery in his heart”. Therefore pre-marital relatoins which include lust are adulterous acts. Your friend needs to back up his claims because he is dead wrong.

This from the catechism of the Council of Trent (that should be earlier enough) on the sixth commandment:
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tcomm06.htm
Two Parts Of This Commandment

This Commandment, then, resolves itself into two heads; the one expressed, which prohibits adultery;** the other implied, which inculcates purity of mind and body.**

What this Commandment Prohibits

Adultery Forbidden

To begin with the prohibitory part (of the Commandment), adultery is the defilement of the marriage bed, whether it be one’s own or another’s. If a married man have intercourse with an unmarried woman, he violates the integrity of his marriage bed; and if an unmarried man have intercourse with a married woman, he defiles the sanctity of the marriage bed of another.

Other Sins Against Chastity Are Forbidden

But that every species of immodesty and impurity are included in this prohibition of adultery, is proved by the testimonies of St. Augustine and St. Ambrose; and that such is the meaning of the Commandment is borne out by the Old, as well as the New Testament. In the writings of Moses, besides adultery, other sins against chastity are said to have been punished. Thus the book of Genesis records the judgment of Judah against his daughter-in-law. In Deuteronomy is found the excellent law of Moses, that there should be no harlot amongst the daughters of Israel.** Take heed to keep thyself, my son, from all fornication, is the exhortation of Tobias to his son; and in Ecclesiasticus we read: Be ashamed of looking upon a harlot.**
Code: 
In the Gospel, too, Christ the Lord says:** From the heart come forth adulteries and fornications, which defile a **man. The Apostle Paul expresses his detestation of this crime frequently, and in the strongest terms: T**his is the will of God, your sanctification, that you should abstain from fornication; Fly fornication; Keep not company with fornicators; Fornication, and an uncleanness and covetousness, let it not so much as be named among you; " Neither fornicators nor adulterers, nor the effeminate nor sodomites shall possess the kingdom of God.**
Ya, it was nutz

Blessings
 
If he’s going to come up with hare-brained charges, the burden of proof is on him. It does not make sense to reply to completely unfounded charge.
 
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Fidelis:
If he’s going to come up with hare-brained charges, the burden of proof is on him. It does not make sense to reply to completely unfounded charge.
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I generally agree with this statement. Because this person is an otherwise solid catholic and a great guy I thought I would try to help him see the error. He has a friend who used to be a jesuit priest (but is now married I think?) who tells him this stuff and I think my friend just about worships the man.
thanks,
nae
 
“The Roman Catechism discussion of the Sixth Commandment explicitly mentions fornication.”

I think the CCC uses the commandments as a handy peg to discuss all items that relate to that commandment, so just because it is mentioned there doesn’t mean it is a mortal sin. For example it discusses boasting and bragging under the eighth commanment, but that doesn’t mean the Church thinks they are mortal sins. The CCC says mortal sin has to be “grave matter” (1857) and “grave matter” is defined (1858) by the list Jesus quoted to the rich young man, which is basically the ten commandments as they are stated, so adultery only is a mortal sin
Adultery is more serious than fornication because it violates the sacramental marriage bond. So fornication may be very serious but not a mortal sin.
 
Fornication is grave matter and a mortal sin when the other conditions of mortal sin are met.

Searchable online Bibles are a handy tool.

From bibleontheweb.com:

Ephesians 5:5 - Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Revelation 21:8 - But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

Revelation 22:15 - Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood.
the New Testament.

Matthew 15:19 - For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.

Mark 7:21 - For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery,

Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness,

Ephesians 5:3 - But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints.

Colossians 3:5 - Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
 
I believe sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin. They call it fornication in the New Testament. That’s what I was always taught. Unforunately, probably 80 % all young people, including Christians have at least one full blown sexual encounter before marriage.
 
“In a so-called free union, a man and a woman refuse to give juridical and public form to a liaison involving sexual intimacy.
The expression ‘free union’ is fallacious: what can ‘union’ mean when the partners make no commitment to one another, each exhibiting a lack of trust in the other, in himself, or in the future?
The expression covers a number of different situations: concubinage, rejection of marriage as such, or inability to make long-term commitments. All these situations offend against the dignity of marriage; they destroy the very idea of the family; they weaken the sense of fidelity. They are contrary to the moral law. The sexual act must take place exclusively within marriage. Outside of marriage it always constitutes a grave sin and excludes one from sacramental communion.” (CCC, 2390)
 
Rivera said:
This is going to sound crazy. A Catholic friend just tried to convince me that pre-marital relations (where both parties are not married) were never considered a mortal sin prior to the Baltimore catechism. I asked for a source for this info but he was sketchy on it. Can anyone point me to a solid early church reference I can share with him to refute this? I tried to use the 10 Commandments, but he said that those only refer to adultery, so non-married people are exempted. Huh?

thanks,
nae
Click to expand...
No question is stupid, this person is asking a legitimate question for help, not sacasm! This is why some forums do not survive. The First Catholic Answer was a periodical that came out once a month I do not remember the Priest who was a head of it. But he usually had sarcastic answers to question asked to him by young or old. This periodical I believe is out of print now. When this Computer Thread on Catholic Answer came out I ignored it for quite awhile. But last week decided to check it out. Becareful of your sarcasm it’s not wanted and only makes the person asking the question to feel bad for even writing it to your Forum.
 
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