Pre-marital sex and culpability

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Catholicwoman11

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Hello,

I am having a debate with a person who believes in free love, that anything goes in terms of sex. His argument against the Catholic Church is that we say that anyone who has had pre-marital sex is going to hell, and he is stating that this means are not to be believed. I am trying to think of an appropriate response and any help would be appreciated.
 
“we say that anyone who has had pre-marital sex is going to hell.”

No, those who have received forgiveness and have resolved not to do it any more, will not.

Whoever it is you are talking to has not heard of the ten commandments, nor adultery, nor fornication, which is mentioned in the bible any number of times.

This is more than a just a pious thought.
 
To the best of my knowledge, we teach that pre-marital sex (fornication) can be a mortal sin when done with sufficient reflection and with full consent of the will. This would put a soul out of a state of grace and would require a perfect act of contrition to reconcile with God. While this is not impossible outside of the Catholic Church, we are graced with the Sacrament of Reconciliation that forgives our sins.

The real problem is that I want to present the Church as merciful, but there are commandments that we must follow given us by God. His argument is that I must believe that every one who has has premarital sex who has not asked for forgiveness is going to hell, and I don’t know how to answer him.
 
Catholicwoman11 said:
To the best of my knowledge, we teach that pre-marital sex (fornication) can be a mortal sin when done with sufficient reflection and with full consent of the will. This would put a soul out of a state of grace and would require a perfect act of contrition to reconcile with God. While this is not impossible outside of the Catholic Church, we are graced with the Sacrament of Reconciliation that forgives our sins.

The real problem is that I want to present the Church as merciful, but there are commandments that we must follow given us by God. His argument is that I must believe that every one who has has premarital sex who has not asked for forgiveness is going to hell, and I don’t know how to answer him.
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Tell him that as a Catholic you cannot say either way because you cannot judge the state of another’s soul.
 
Catholicwoman11 said:
To the best of my knowledge, we teach that pre-marital sex (fornication) can be a mortal sin when done with sufficient reflection and with full consent of the will. This would put a soul out of a state of grace and would require a perfect act of contrition to reconcile with God. While this is not impossible outside of the Catholic Church, we are graced with the Sacrament of Reconciliation that forgives our sins.

The real problem is that I want to present the Church as merciful, but there are commandments that we must follow given us by God. His argument is that I must believe that every one who has has premarital sex who has not asked for forgiveness is going to hell, and I don’t know how to answer him.
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You could say that such a person actually chooses hell, because God would ultimately be eternally repulsive to them. In this way, Hell is merciful, because to those repulsed by God, an eternity in His Presence would be worse than Hell.

But God, in His Mercy, allows us to come to Him up until our last breath, to make reparation for our sins, and choose Him forever.
 
Catholicwoman11 said:
…His argument against the Catholic Church is that we say that anyone who has had pre-marital sex is going to hell…
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No, we don’t. He is incorrect. While fornication is grave matter and can be a mortal sin, only God can judge the state of someone’s soul.
 
Terms like “sufficient reflection” are not part of this doctrine.

It has to be serious matter, you know it is a sin and no one forces you do do it (you do it on purpose).

CCC states it nice and clear:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."
 
Catholicwoman11 said:
Hello,

I am having a debate with a person who believes in free love, that anything goes in terms of sex. His argument against the Catholic Church is that we say that anyone who has had pre-marital sex is going to hell, and he is stating that this means are not to be believed. I am trying to think of an appropriate response and any help would be appreciated.
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St Augustine had pre-marital sex (he had a concubine, with whom he had a son), and we say that he is a saint (i.e., that he is not in hell). Your friend’s assertion is too simplistic. Other posters in this thread have outlined some of the ways in which your friend’s statement fails to be accurate.
 
There is a lot of women and children living below the poverty line all over the world because of ‘deadbeat dads’. What would the women and children have done over all the centuries? Today, taxpayers are footing the bill to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table because men are not taking care of their families. There is rampant sexually transmitted diseases, teen pregnancies, broken families. “Anything goes” is irresponsible and reckless, and hurts women and children. Ask him to defend his actions.

The Church has asked young men and women not to have sex before coming into the Church, proclaiming their intention to marry before witnesses. This is to protect women and children and make men accountable for their actions. The Church calls young men to love and serve their families and the Church cares for the upbringing of children for the good of all society. If he has a problem with that, he’ll have an eternity to ponder it.
 
PennyinCanada said:
There is a lot of women and children living below the poverty line all over the world because of ‘deadbeat dads’. What would the women and children have done over all the centuries? Today, taxpayers are footing the bill to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table because men are not taking care of their families. There is rampant sexually transmitted diseases, teen pregnancies, broken families. “Anything goes” is irresponsible and reckless, and hurts women and children. Ask him to defend his actions.

The Church has asked young men and women not to have sex before coming into the Church, proclaiming their intention to marry before witnesses. This is to protect women and children and make men accountable for their actions. The Church calls young men to love and serve their families and the Church cares for the upbringing of children for the good of all society. If he has a problem with that, he’ll have an eternity to ponder it.
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Hey PennyInCanada, just don’t blame the “dead beat dads”. It takes two to tango. Sure, there are indeed ‘dead beatd dads’, but there are also an awful lot of young men who have been sucked in by this notion of ‘free love’, just like women have been.

Love is never free. With it comes responsibility and respect for another. Either of the sexes being free about it ignores the responsibility and doesn’t consider the respect of either themselves or the other. Sex has been commodified and all those who indulge are scarred.

I’ll stick my neck out and say women are the ones who fall pregnant. The multitude of single mothers and the astonishing abortion rates are a sell out to womanhood. I ask when are women going to lock the ‘safe’ and make it damnably hard for men to get hold of the keys? And by ‘safe’, I mean the heart as much as the body. It is too easy for men to walk away. It always has been. That’s why a women’s honour used to be cherished and a man tampered with it at his peril. Now, as you point out, the taxpayer foots the bill; the woman keeps the child and the man moves on. Women need o take control. There will always be ‘dead beat dads’, for whatever reason. There might not be many, but there will be some, just as there always has been. And there will always be some women who seem to think throwing caution to the wind is OK. Now, throwing caution to the wind seems to be universal amongst men and women and the dignity of human relations is trashed in the process.

That’s something you don’t here about very often, but even men lose their dignity when they become promiscuous and most men frown on it too.
 
John, I agree.
I was trying to help the op with a reply to her friend, but I’m glad you added what you did.
The culture has adopted the ‘contraceptive mentality’ that anything goes because there’s no consequences to promiscuity. If the woman gets pregnant, there’s always abortion. I suspect the op’s friend is of that mind.
 
Catholicwoman11 said:
The real problem is that I want to present the Church as merciful, but there are commandments that we must follow given us by God. His argument is that I must believe that every one who has has premarital sex who has not asked for forgiveness is going to hell, and I don’t know how to answer him.
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Because hell is a potential consequence for people as well. To portray God rightly as merciful and just, you’d have to acknowledge your friend’s point too. However, He only leads toward holiness and gives everything needed to follow, which includes forgiving transgressions over and over. Your friend’s focus may be hell, but the bigger part, by far, is the union and eternal joy of heaven. He wants everyone to be a part of that, no matter how far we wander off the reservation. He keeps tugging at our heart. The Church shows us many ways to grow in holiness.
 
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