Pre-Marital Sex, Rape, Stillbirth, Miscarriage, etc

[Rita88]

Hello there, if any of you have seen me around over the past few days, I am in fact Anglican; and firstly may I just say I’m enjoying exploring the Catholic faith on your site, as well as getting some helpful advice and opinions relation to my own!

And here goes with my contemplative question(s), please be warned, this is a sensitive subject for some people!

I am asking on the view point of name “x” This is a complexed hypothetical.

“X” was sexually and physically abused as a very young child by her father, and whilst her father was atheist and did not attend church, her mother was a church going Christian. She quickly learnt that “those whom can not restrain themselves should be married” and that sex and indeed, children, conceived or born outside of marriage was WRONG! (She also learnt that only God’s will can be done).

Question a) Whilst such incest and pre-marital relationships are condemned, would X be sinful for disobeying her father, going to the police and leaving home; for it says in the ten commandments “Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother”

X leaves home.

Years pass, away from home, and another elder male begins abusing her sexually, selling her as a prostitute, and so on. She falls pregnant. He asks her to marry her, (it is known that this is for the abusers protection and for financial implication)

*Question B) Is X sinful for her parts in premarital sex, prostitution and pregnancy.

Question C) Should X marry her abuser, if so WHY?*

(We continue with the assumption they have not yet/ do not marry) X looses her child, and goes on to loose others under similar circumstances to the same abuser.

Question D) Do you believe this is part of God’s plan, if so why and what do you think?

The mother of X tells her she should have aborted such a child, being the result of such events.

Question E) Do you agree?

X wonders if there is anything that suggests that she should not have loved her unborn children in the bible, as her mum assures her she should not feel grief.

Question F) What would be your response?

X finally breaks free from the abuse, and commits her life to her existing religion, but finds it difficult to commit a small portion of her heart, that doubts God’s eternal and everlasting love, because of her loss, and her experiences.

Question G) With religious response how would you guide, console, comfort and support X?

X wants to be a nun.

Question H) Can she still serve such a life, with such impurity, and having fallen pregnant?

Looking forward to your answers? xxx Peace and Love xxx

 

[deb1]

“X” was sexually and physically abused as a very young child by her father, and whilst her father was atheist and did not attend church, her mother was a church going Christian. She quickly learnt that “those whom can not restrain themselves should be married” and that sex and indeed, children, conceived or born outside of marriage was WRONG! (She also learnt that only God’s will can be done).

Question a) Whilst such incest and pre-marital relationships are condemned, would X be sinful for disobeying her father, going to the police and leaving home; for it says in the ten commandments "Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother

Her father has abdicated his role as parent so he does not deserve to be honored. The word honor does not mean allow yourself to be abused by some jerk.

quote]Years pass, away from home, and another elder male begins abusing her sexually, selling her as a prostitute, and so on. She falls pregnant. He asks her to marry her, (it is known that this is for the abusers protection and for financial implication)

*Question B) Is X sinful for her parts in premarital sex, prostitution and pregnancy. *

*Question C) Should X marry her abuser, if so WHY?

]

As humans we don’t know what point a person becomes culpable for their actions. I am not God, so I can’t take into account everything that he does when judging another human. So, I can’t honestly say how she will be judged by God.

It would be unloving to not point out to her that she is sinning though and perhaps assist her in finding help to overcome her abused childhood.

(We continue with the assumption they have not yet/ do not marry) X looses her child, and goes on to loose others under similar circumstances to the same abuser.

Question D) Do you believe this is part of God’s plan, if so why and what do you think?

Well, it might be cruel to say this, but she is partly responsible. She doesn’t have to be in an abusive relationship. I’ve known of women, who once they knew that their children would be endangered also, left the relationship. It was hard for them but they did leave.

She needs someone who loves her to help her find an exit plan to escape this man.

]The mother of X tells her she should have aborted such a child, being the result of such events.

Question E) Do you agree?

Whoa. That mother doesn’t sound very Christian like. You are on a Catholic board, so the answer will be no from most of us here.

X wonders if there is anything that suggests that she should not have loved her unborn children in the bible, as her mum assures her she should not feel grief.

Question F) What would be your response?

Her mother sounds a bit off. I am not trying to be funny, her mother does sound like she has her own issues. Why would anyone tell someone who had lost a child that she shouldn’t grieve? That is pretty cold.

X finally breaks free from the abuse, and commits her life to her existing religion, but finds it difficult to commit a small portion of her heart, that doubts God’s eternal and everlasting love, because of her loss, and her experiences.

Question G) With religious response how would you guide, console, comfort and support X?

A good Christian therapist would be far better to answer her concerns then I would be. I can assure her that God loves her, but I don’t the same experience that she does. I know that other women have been through these types of experiences though and perhaps a therapist could put her in contact with a group of other women*

 

[catharina]

Hello there, if any of you have seen me around over the past few days, I am in fact Anglican; and firstly may I just say I’m enjoying exploring the Catholic faith on your site, as well as getting some helpful advice and opinions relation to my own!

And here goes with my contemplative question(s), please be warned, this is a sensitive subject for some people!

I am asking on the view point of name “x” This is a complexed hypothetical.

“X” was sexually and physically abused as a very young child by her father, and whilst her father was atheist and did not attend church, her mother was a church going Christian. She quickly learnt that “those whom can not restrain themselves should be married” and that sex and indeed, children, conceived or born outside of marriage was WRONG! (She also learnt that only God’s will can be done).

Question a) Whilst such incest and pre-marital relationships are condemned, would X be sinful for disobeying her father, going to the police and leaving home; for it says in the ten commandments “Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother”

X leaves home.

Years pass, away from home, and another elder male begins abusing her sexually, selling her as a prostitute, and so on. She falls pregnant. He asks her to marry her, (it is known that this is for the abusers protection and for financial implication)

*Question B) Is X sinful for her parts in premarital sex, prostitution and pregnancy. *

Question C) Should X marry her abuser, if so WHY?

(We continue with the assumption they have not yet/ do not marry) X looses her child, and goes on to loose others under similar circumstances to the same abuser.

Question D) Do you believe this is part of God’s plan, if so why and what do you think?

The mother of X tells her she should have aborted such a child, being the result of such events.

Question E) Do you agree?

X wonders if there is anything that suggests that she should not have loved her unborn children in the bible, as her mum assures her she should not feel grief.

Question F) What would be your response?

X finally breaks free from the abuse, and commits her life to her existing religion, but finds it difficult to commit a small portion of her heart, that doubts God’s eternal and everlasting love, because of her loss, and her experiences.

Question G) With religious response how would you guide, console, comfort and support X?

X wants to be a nun.

Question H) Can she still serve such a life, with such impurity, and having fallen pregnant?

Looking forward to your answers? xxx Peace and Love xxx

Rita, first, my greatest sympathy to X.

Question A: as Deb said, the father of X has lost his rights as a father since he has acted in a most unfatherly way. X should be encouraged to turn him over to law enforcement to protect other children even if it is too late to protect herself from him. In fact, it could be seen as “honoring him” by the very act of bringing the situation to the attention of the authorities since they would have the power to make him behave according to all laws of common decency.

Question B: Children who have been subjected to severe abuse, especially sexual abuse, are quite likely and often, developmentally arrested at the age when such abuse began. In other words, neither God nor man is thought to judge them as one might judge an adult who grew up in a normal setting. Even the courts recognize this. God is the source of all mercy, especially toward children who have suffered.

Question C: One must never marry an abuser since abusers are gravely deficient in the morality needed to sustain a marriage and family.

Question D: God’s will/plan is for all to love and serve Him. God will take care of the details. All any of us can do is begin now!

Question E: The mother of X is in grave error regarding the baby.

Question F: Again, the mother of X is in grave error.

Question G: God loves X as the only X who will ever exist. God will walk with X all through the many changes she needs to make to protect her own soul, life, well-being and future. God most certainly desires that X will know peace and X should begin to pursue it in therapeutic services that are true to her own battered but meaningful religious convictions.

Question H: This is a question that must go back on the shelf since it has no relevance now. X is still in need of healing that will provide her with grace, comfort and clear thinking.

I’ll offer prayers for X.

 

[Newbie2]

Hello there, if any of you have seen me around over the past few days, I am in fact Anglican; and firstly may I just say I’m enjoying exploring the Catholic faith on your site, as well as getting some helpful advice and opinions relation to my own!

And here goes with my contemplative question(s), please be warned, this is a sensitive subject for some people!

I am asking on the view point of name “x” This is a complexed hypothetical.

“X” was sexually and physically abused as a very young child by her father, and whilst her father was atheist and did not attend church, her mother was a church going Christian. She quickly learnt that “those whom can not restrain themselves should be married” and that sex and indeed, children, conceived or born outside of marriage was WRONG! (She also learnt that only God’s will can be done).

Question a) Whilst such incest and pre-marital relationships are condemned, would X be sinful for disobeying her father, going to the police and leaving home; for it says in the ten commandments “Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother”

X leaves home.

Years pass, away from home, and another elder male begins abusing her sexually, selling her as a prostitute, and so on. She falls pregnant. He asks her to marry her, (it is known that this is for the abusers protection and for financial implication)

*Question B) Is X sinful for her parts in premarital sex, prostitution and pregnancy.

Question C) Should X marry her abuser, if so WHY?*

(We continue with the assumption they have not yet/ do not marry) X looses her child, and goes on to loose others under similar circumstances to the same abuser.

Question D) Do you believe this is part of God’s plan, if so why and what do you think?

The mother of X tells her she should have aborted such a child, being the result of such events.

Question E) Do you agree?

X wonders if there is anything that suggests that she should not have loved her unborn children in the bible, as her mum assures her she should not feel grief.

Question F) What would be your response?

X finally breaks free from the abuse, and commits her life to her existing religion, but finds it difficult to commit a small portion of her heart, that doubts God’s eternal and everlasting love, because of her loss, and her experiences.

Question G) With religious response how would you guide, console, comfort and support X?

X wants to be a nun.

Question H) Can she still serve such a life, with such impurity, and having fallen pregnant?

Looking forward to your answers? xxx Peace and Love xxx

A) No. An abusive “father” is biological only. This is what is assumed in the commandment.

B) Her level of sin depends on her mental state. Yes, to some extent, if she knows it is wrong but she would seem to have (not an excuse) but mitigating circumstances, such as an alchoholic has certain predispositions that mitigate their additiction, at least to some extent. God is the judge of her guilt.

C) No. Marry an abuser?

D) Maybe, maybe not. Often very harsh circumstances lead us to where and what the Almighty wants us to do and be. On the other hand, sometimes we are very stubborn or blind and don’t see what he has in mind for us.

E) What do you mean she loses such children? Miscarriage?

Should she have aborted them? Moot point if they were miscarried, but for discussion’s sake, no, she should never have considered abortion. Who knows, having and raising a baby could have gotten her out of the grip of prostitution?

F) Methinks mom needs an infusion of grace. Why not mourn lost children? Not all answers are explicitly stated in the bible to all particular situations.

G) Maybe it was those particular circumstances are being used by the Almighty to make her a stronger person. Look at the Saints…look at the people that God has used throughout the ages to do his will. And look to the Cross for the mercy of Christ!

Perhaps she is being called precisely because she has this experience…maybe she can identify with and help others in the same situation. With God, all things are possible.

Christ called a tax collector to be one of his Apostles (and they were no saints!), why should he not call this woman?

BTW, what’s her “existing religion”?

H) Absolutely! Sins are forgiven through repentance and by the mercy of Christ. When she is ready to commit her entire self to the Lord, she might be far better suited to the religious life than many others.

 

[strngrnrth]

Question a) Whilst such incest and pre-marital relationships are condemned, would X be sinful for disobeying her father, going to the police and leaving home; for it says in the ten commandments “Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother” …

*Question B) Is X sinful for her parts in premarital sex, prostitution and pregnancy.

Question C) Should X marry her abuser, if so WHY?*
…
Question D) Do you believe this is part of God’s plan, if so why and what do you think?

The mother of X tells her she should have aborted such a child, being the result of such events.

Question E) Do you agree?

X wonders if there is anything that suggests that she should not have loved her unborn children in the bible, as her mum assures her she should not feel grief.

Question F) What would be your response?

A) No, she should certainly protect herself by leaving home. She sould also protect others by turning him over to the authorities to be locked away, so other children can’t be harmed by him.
B) No, she was under duress and is similar to a prisoner forced to do repugnant things by torturers, not a free agent.
C) No, he is not worth marrying. Marriage to him would merely prolong her situation. She should escape and live somewhere safer.
D) Everything becomes part of God’s plan as He works through everything that happens to produce good, but the death of these children and the pain of this woman are not God’s desire. He wants better things.
E) No. How is it the kids’ fault? They weren’t even in existence during those events that brought them into being.
F) I would respond by making some attempt to analyze that mother. I would guess that she is projecting her own lack of protective feeling for her daughter on her daughter and assuming she would feel the same way about her own offspring. She also could be trying to rationalize her failure to help her child by saying a mother need not even grieve the dead. There is something wrong with that mother.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Question a) Whilst such incest and pre-marital relationships are condemned, would X be sinful for disobeying her father, going to the police and leaving home; for it says in the ten commandments “Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother”

No. One is not obliged to participate or submit to sin or abuse – even if the abuse is as the hands of the father or mother.

*Question B) Is X sinful for her parts in premarital sex, prostitution and pregnancy. *
The sin or lack thereof is contigent on X knowing what she did was wrong and doing it wilfully.
Rita88;3300959:

Question C) Should X marry her abuser, if so WHY?

No. Marriage must be freely entered. To marry because of pregnancy actually vitiates the contract, and is grounds for annullment.

Question D) Do you believe this is part of God’s plan, if so why and what do you think?

God’s plan includes Free Will. He knows that some will sin, and sin horribly.

The mother of X tells her she should have aborted such a child, being the result of such events.

Question E) Do you agree?

Absolutely not! Why should an innocent victim be put to death?

X wonders if there is anything that suggests that she should not have loved her unborn children in the bible, as her mum assures her she should not feel grief.

Question F) What would be your response?

Children are meant to be loved and cared for – it is inherent in the species.

X finally breaks free from the abuse, and commits her life to her existing religion, but finds it difficult to commit a small portion of her heart, that doubts God’s eternal and everlasting love, because of her loss, and her experiences.

Question G) With religious response how would you guide, console, comfort and support X?

Many saints went through the “Dark Night of the Soul.” If she perseveres, she will see God.

X wants to be a nun.

Question H) Can she still serve such a life, with such impurity, and having fallen pregnant?

The same way a man, having fathered a child can become a priest. There is no impedement – although she must make provision for her child, if it is still dependent upon her.