Pre-marriage intimacy

[Liberanosamalo]

Nothing here makes me question my love for him. Perhaps that’s where my emphasis should be, but it is a matter of beliefs. Sex is not a sin for me, it is an extension and a commitment. For him, and you guys, it is a sin outside of marriage. I do get that.

The Catholic Church teaches that sex is an outward expression of an inner reality that already exists, not one we WISH existed! It is an expression of a total, irrevocable and exclusive commitment between two people. If you have sex with someone you are not married to, you are lying to each other with your bodies and your whole being. Such an act is dishonest to each other, and dishonest to God. Do you want your boyfriend to then be like Adam, “Lord, I saw I was uncovered, so I hid myself from you.” “The woman you gave me made me do it.”

The serpent is always in the garden making you see things his way. “You will see what is good and evil. You will decide what is good and evil. You will be like gods.”

And you’re repeating that whole story kind of. Handing Adam the apple. And he will resent you and blame you if he follows your lead against all of his best instincts.

This is one of the most important decisions you will ever make: whom to marry. You already know that sleeping with someone is no guarantee their love for you will become permanent, irrevocable and exclusive. And by removing your boyfriend from the grace of God through sin, every choice he makes concerning you will be clouded by sin and made without the grace of God.

That is why so many relationships that involved fornication led to marriages that didn’t work. They were built on a lie. Two people who pretended to be united, but really weren’t. Two people whose first intimate encounter was a proclamation to the world that they did not have to be married to a person in order to have sex with them. (That can come back to haunt you in a marriage. You look at that person and realize they are very good at rationalizing away their deepest values and betraying their own standards. If they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you.)

And so you have people who make wrong choices to marry unsuitable people because their judgement was clouded by sin.
That causes high divorce rates. Adam and Eve’s paradise ended AFTER they sinned, not before.

Not every engagement leads to a marriage. Creating an artificial sexual bond can lead people to marry because “after all, I’ve already slept with him/her. May as well marry them now.” Or if the engagement ends for other reasons, do you want that person to hate you for pressuring them to back down from their values? Then you have robbed the woman he will marry someday of HER right to her husband’s virginity. That is selfish.

Don’t bring guilt and resentment into your relationship. Don’t let other people who have sinned absolve themselves by giving you a pass. (Misery loves company.)

The final question… will your boyfriend be a better, holier man for his relationship with you? If not, do him the favor of backing away. Real love doesn’t cause someone to be worse for associating with you. Do you want him to look himself in the mirror and realize he doesn’t like himself because of you? That will ensure your relationship goes nowhere.

Show real respect and love for him. And yourself. If you won’t do that, you are not ready to relocate for him. If you can’t do that, you are not ready for marriage.

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

very long post so maybe I missed the part about “we got married” before “we became sexually intimate”
sex is for marriage
marriage is for people who are ready to live together, to build a life together, to have a family.
if you are not there, you may not have sex, it is a privilege, not a right, does not go with “but we’re in love” it goes with “we are committed in a covenant publicly proclaimed before God, church and society lasting for life and open to life”

getting justification for wrongdoing from well meaning people, even priests, is not going to save you from the ill effects of pre-marital sex, which, as my generation, the first to experiment with the so-called freedoms (actually, chains) forged by the sexual revolution can attest with feeling and sad experience.

but how in blue blazes do you justify discussing sex life on a public internet site, let alone with your boyfriend’s mother, that blows me away even more. I guess I will ask my mothership to beam me back up to my home planet now.

This is getting into uncharitable territory in regards to the tone. This person asks for our help and asks to be kind as she doesn’t have our views on things, and is told off?

Yes, y’alls generation made up this freedom. And it’s now popular culture which we were born into. Why are you surprised that people think this way now? As for sex being a gesture of commitment, though it is incorrect, is that so hard to understand as possible?

Sex is for marriage. We know this. We’ve been to Catholic school, or have Catholic parents or plain just read this forum too much. But people who aren’t taught such see it differently and cannot be held to the same account as a good Catholic or Christian. That is why ignorance cancels out a mortal sin-- if you do not know something is wrong, what is telling you not to do it? What is telling you that it isn’t in fact as good as it appears.

That she, the non-Catholic, is on a Catholic forum asking this for herself and her Catholic boyfriend speaks volumes.

If we understand we can help. People have a motive for what they do, being unable to see their point won’t get you anywhere. I am not saying agree, but understand.

 

[StephanieC]

You’ve been dating for two years.

You’re both in your mid twenties.

You “have absolute faith that you will be married and together.”

Question: Where’s the ring and when’s the wedding date?

You’ve emphasized how slowly & carefully you’ve proceded to plan your fornication, but has he proposed? It ain’t “pre-marriage intimacy” if there’s no upcoming marriage!

Look, I get it, I’ve been there–chock full o’hormones and really, really turned on by the guy. There is a reason for this–to compel us to join together and make babies! So why not get married and start enjoying the privileges of marriage?

 

[lizaanne]

If you have sex before married…that is exactly what you will know about each other: that you both will sleep with someone you aren’t married to. I don’t think that is something you want to know about someone that you will eventually be married to…that he will sleep with someone he isn’t married to.

Sex cannot be USED to bring someone closer or to commit. It is an expression of what already exists. Do not lie with your body.

Outstanding post!

~Liza

 

[He_Man]

I agree with you, here.

I have also heard that the stat for the divorce rate soaring is very high, with couples who have had premarital sex? What is the reason for that? Just curious–I never understood why that is?

All psychological and sociological reasons aside aside, it is really simple.

Do what God tells you, and things go smoothly. Go against him, and things don’t, ultimately.

Broad brush, but very accurate.

 

[StephanieC]

(This is Stephanie’s husband writing.)

Plenty of people have covered the religious aspect of this, so I’m going to take it from another viewpoint.

You live in different countries, and you’re thinking about moving to his country. That’s scary, so you want to make really, really, really, REALLY sure that he loves you first.

So you think, “if I can find something that is extremely important to him, and make him give that up, then I’ll know that he loves me.” So you’ve chosen his chastity. Whatever you say, (and I’ve no doubt, sincerely believe) this isn’t fundamentally about sex. This is about your fear.

It’s understandable, and it’s also selfish. This is just another variation of the “if you REALLY loved me, you’d…” gambit that people have been playing on each other since time immemorial. (“Samson, if you REALLY loved me, you’d tell me the secret of your strength.”)

It’s too bad that he’s not a fanatical Red Sox fan or something - then you could just make him give up baseball. Instead, you’ve decided that he has to give up one of his core moral beliefs.

This isn’t about love, or sex, or sin. This is about control. You’ve decided that unless you have enough control over him that you can get him to violate his own beliefs, then the move to Canada and the deepening of the relationship is too scary. I’m sure that it would be quite reassuring in the short term to get a man to prove that he loves you more than he loves God, but in the long term, you’re poisoning this relationship. You’re insisting on control in the relationship, and you’re setting up ultimatums (however lovingly you phrase it.)

Wake up, and grow up, or you’re both going to end up very unhappy.

 

[montanaman]

Bad cop here…

I hope this thread serves as an illustration of the dangers of believers getting involved with pagans. They just don’t get it. That’s not to say we shouldn’t all try to get along or love each other, but they labor under an entirely different set of “values” than we do. I’ve been there, and I know as well as anyone that as nice and “good” (in the worldly sense) as they are, spiritual matters are incomprehensible to them.

I weep for the guy involved in this. Given what we know about him, it sounds like he has no support whatsoever. He’s all alone. May God protect him.

 

[dulcissima]

This isn’t about love, or sex, or sin. This is about control.

Absolutely.

 

[bluerose]

This is getting into uncharitable territory in regards to the tone. This person asks for our help and asks to be kind as she doesn’t have our views on things, and is told off?

Yes, y’alls generation made up this freedom. And it’s now popular culture which we were born into. Why are you surprised that people think this way now? As for sex being a gesture of commitment, though it is incorrect, is that so hard to understand as possible?

Sex is for marriage. We know this. We’ve been to Catholic school, or have Catholic parents or plain just read this forum too much. But people who aren’t taught such see it differently and cannot be held to the same account as a good Catholic or Christian. That is why ignorance cancels out a mortal sin-- if you do not know something is wrong, what is telling you not to do it? What is telling you that it isn’t in fact as good as it appears.

That she, the non-Catholic, is on a Catholic forum asking this for herself and her Catholic boyfriend speaks volumes.

If we understand we can help. People have a motive for what they do, being unable to see their point won’t get you anywhere. I am not saying agree, but understand.

I’m missing where the OP was ignorant on this point. After all, she HERSELF said that her boyfriend believed it was a sin that would send him to hell.

What bothers me (and a lot of others from previous generations) is that, as smart and well-informed and educated as the younger generations claim to be (at least, smarter, better-informed, and more educated than us dinosaurs), you’re still falling for the same stupid lies that our generation fell for. :banghead: Some of you are victims of those lies and STILL you believe them!

You want us to be “kind” and “understanding” and “gentle”. But the truth cannot be compromised and sometimes the truth hurts. You can have the gentlest doctor or nurse in the world, but that doesn’t mean the needle ain’t gonna hurt when they stick it in your arm!

A lot of people on this thread have responded with great love. I know they probably winced and cringed when they read the original post and that added urgency to their messages. They DO NOT want the OP to suffer from the same mistakes they have made. They WANT the OP and her boyfriend to find true love and happiness AND holiness in their relationship. They don’t want this to end up as another sad statistic, two hearts broken, two lives disillusioned.

Tell me I’m not the only one who sees this!

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

I’m missing where the OP was ignorant on this point. After all, she HERSELF said that her boyfriend believed it was a sin that would send him to hell.

What bothers me (and a lot of others from previous generations) is that, as smart and well-informed and educated as the younger generations claim to be (at least, smarter, better-informed, and more educated than us dinosaurs), you’re still falling for the same stupid lies that our generation fell for. :banghead: Some of you are victims of those lies and STILL you believe them!

You want us to be “kind” and “understanding” and “gentle”. But the truth cannot be compromised and sometimes the truth hurts. You can have the gentlest doctor or nurse in the world, but that doesn’t mean the needle ain’t gonna hurt when they stick it in your arm!

A lot of people on this thread have responded with great love. I know they probably winced and cringed when they read the original post and that added urgency to their messages. They DO NOT want the OP to suffer from the same mistakes they have made. They WANT the OP and her boyfriend to find true love and happiness AND holiness in their relationship. They don’t want this to end up as another sad statistic, two hearts broken, two lives disillusioned.

Tell me I’m not the only one who sees this!

I understand that truth hurts sometimes, I’m not saying to lie to make it better. But it does help to have a nice nurse as opposed to a mean one when you’re there for a shot. The way things are presented gives an impact. Yes, I know many posters here wrote with love, most of them in fact. But for me one stuck out and I replied to it. It wasn’t meant to look down on all the other replies.

And of course you’re not the only one who sees it. I can see it as well. I want them to have a good and happy life, I gave the same answer everyone else did-- to wait. Hopefully she’ll read all the replies and have her answer. Though if I’m not mistaken she’s already chosen to wait.

 

[EeyoresButerfly]

I think it is interesting that this is being brought up as a generational issue by some posters. At 23, I am from the same generation as the OP. I realize that our values are different, but can I give you an idea of how people our age can date without the drama of pre-marital sex?

I have known for a long time that I am going to save myself for marriage, and am part of the True Love Waits program. I admit that it’s hard sometimes, what with all of the messages in the media that it’s “cool” to have sex, but I have never regretted it. I have had some pretty serious relationships too. There was one guy in particular who I thought was “the one”. He was the first guy I kissed (I was 20) and that did not happen til several dates in. We went to dinner, went to the movies, the theatre, even hung out like most couples do. We also had frank discussions on our sexual attraction. I was forever grateful that he did not ever attempt to get me to go against my beliefs even though I knew he was sexual attracted to me. Had he tried to coerce me to do so by telling me I was demonstrating my commitment to him, I would have broken off the relationship immediately, and been forever hurt and jaded by it. Although the relationship did end amicably for other reasons, I am glad for the time I had with him, and that he respected my beliefs even when it wasn’t easy. To me, that shows me how much he cared for me.

My current boyfriend and I live several hours apart and only see eachother a couple of times a month. I realize this is nowhere near comparable to your distance obstacles, but I do understand wanting to be able to hold his hand or give him a hug and not being able to. We have not even kissed yet, and it feels good to take it slow. I am getting to know him well and it only increases my love for him. Taking things slow is one of the best thing I can do for this relationship, and I’m grateful that he feels the same way.

I tell you this to show you that people our age can have beautiful, meaningful relationships without sex. There’s so much you can do together to show your commitment and love for eachother that does not involve taking your clothes off, and it’s surprisingly freeing to not have to worry about the baggage that comes with sex. I don’t have to worry about pregnancy, or STD’s or the increased emotional complication that sex brings into a relationship. I know you’re seeing your boyfriend soon, but I would like to encourage you to not have sex just yet, take some time to really think about the implications of your decision. Explore all the possibilities other than sex for you to show commitment for eachother, you’ll be glad you did.

 

[montanaman]

Maybe someone can explain why simply explaining incompatible beliefs somehow calls for kid gloves. I see no reason why it’s “rude” or “judgmental” or “rigid” or “inconsiderate” or “incompassionate” to point out that a non-believer is trying to coerce a brother-in-the-faith to go to hell for her.

Two years ago I went back home for my high school reunion. I ran into a girl (woman?) with whom I’d had a sexual relationship in high school. She was working on her second marriage, but she wasted no time in propositioning me. When I refused (I was about two weeks away from proposing to my future wife, not to mention five or so years after finally living up to my beliefs), she said “Oh, you’re just confused. You want me…”

No, actually I didn’t. I was disgusted with her. In fact, I was seriously annoyed that this carnal person presumed to know anything about me. I was annoyed by her presumption, and her total inability to understand the reasons for which I refused to commit adultery with her. They just don’t get it.

But whatever. We’re “judgmental.”

 

[JimG]

I would like to point out this is not a “Catholic” teaching.

Hebrews 13:4 - Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 – fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

All those who call themselves Christian are called to conform themselves to and be transformed by Christ.

It seems that Christianity condemned fornication from the beginning.
(For that matter, so did / does Judaism.)

If St. Paul were contributing to CAF, it’s pretty certain where he would come down on the issue. But what does he know? Didn’t someone change the rules on premarital sex in the last generation or so?

 

[Maria1212]

It seems that Christianity condemned fornication from the beginning.
(For that matter, so did / does Judaism.)

If St. Paul were contributing to CAF, it’s pretty certain where he would come down on the issue. But what does he know? Didn’t someone change the rules on premarital sex in the last generation or so?

Excellent point that premaritial sex being a sin that can send one to hell. It is a Biblical belief and not just a "Catholic " belief. Unfortunately, it is a part that many Christians today choose to gloss over. We can`t cut and paste from the Bible.

SIncerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

Here is the link at Amazon for the book I recommended earlier.

amazon.com/gp/reader/0867166193/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-4058837-9940101#reader-link

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[DL82]

Can I just say that this sounds a lot like my own situation not that long ago with my (now ex) fiancee.

Long distance relationships are difficult. In our case, we only saw eachother every 2-3 months. When you have to go so long without even moderate physical intimacy (hugging, holding hands, kissing) it’s hard to keep your hands off eachother when you finally do see eachother. I can say that we did have sex, and that it was good, but we also talked a lot about stopping, neither of us really understanding why we should except “the Church says so”. It showed that we couldn’t talk about religion because our understandings were so different, and in turn, it became clear that we couldn’t take any decisions together because our thought processes were so opposite.

It’s easy for something to get between two people when they’re doing the long distance thing. In my case, I think I subconsciously pressured my fiancee into giving up her whole social life for me. I was jealous because she still had her life intact whereas I was working 2 jobs, giving up my country of birth, my job and career prospects to emigrate to be with her, and I was always the one who paid for flights when we went to visit eachother. I now realise what’s needed is to respect and be happy for what the other person has. In my case it was my fiancee’s wonderful gift with other people. In yours, it’s your fiance’s joy and steadfastness in his faith.

I’d suggest you try to understand your fiance’s faith, understand why it is so important to him, and learn to love and support that about him.

I know it’s not something you asked for, but another word of advice would be to look into the Catholic faith for yourself. I found that the Catholic Church in North America is quite a lot broader and more liberal than here in the UK, probably in a similar place to the Church of England, while Anglican Church in North America is so ultra-liberal that it barely believes in anything anymore. You’d probably feel quite at home in a Canadian Catholic Church. At the same time, if you find something different when you look at Catholicism from what your fiance sees, don’t assume that you’re right and he’s wrong. Respect is the key. Shame I learned that too late.

 

[PaulinVA]

I hope this thread serves as an illustration of the dangers of believers getting involved with pagans.

Come on, the church of England isn’t pagan. There are some good Christians in the CoE. Some, not so much. That could be said about Catholics, too.

 

[puzzleannie]

This is getting into uncharitable territory in regards to the tone. This person asks for our help and asks to be kind as she doesn’t have our views on things, and is told off?

Yes, y’alls generation made up this freedom. And it’s now popular culture which we were born into. Why are you surprised that people think this way now? As for sex being a gesture of commitment, though it is incorrect, is that so hard to understand as possible?
.

the lack of charity is commmitted by someone who knows this is wrong, dangerous, will deep six their marriage, and quite possibly destroy the relationship, yet goes ahead and tells her do it honey of it feels right. that is like handing a loaded gun to a six year old and is not charitable.

yes my generation paid the price for this slipshod thinking (we did not invent it, the previous Kinsey generation did) but we bought the package, and suffered the consequences. heed the warning and the obvious fact that intact marriages are going the way of the dodo, or continue to spew lies and call it “charity” and “tolerance” and “being pastoral”. Lies kill. It was true in the Garden and it is true know. If you really love young people who ask these natural questions you will tell the truth.

 

[Becky42]

OH MY GOODNESS…are you actually telling me that that movie KINSEY i watched the other night on tv and was appalled by was actually a true story??? are you kdding me…far out sometimes i think our world is going down a sinkhole fast…

 

[MSParrott]

Sex is for marriage. We know this. We’ve been to Catholic school, or have Catholic parents or plain just read this forum too much. But people who aren’t taught such see it differently and cannot be held to the same account as a good Catholic or Christian. That is why ignorance cancels out a mortal sin-- if you do not know something is wrong, what is telling you not to do it? What is telling you that it isn’t in fact as good as it appears.

That she, the non-Catholic, is on a Catholic forum asking this for herself and her Catholic boyfriend speaks volumes.

I agree with you. But the crux of the issue is that waiting until marriage to have relations isn’t just a Catholic teaching - it’s a Christian teaching, too - s previous posters have mentioned. Love has it’s sacrifices for sure, but this sacrifice is small compared to eternity in hell. I speak this as someone who unfortunately did make this mistake and I wish I was smart enough to have waited.