Pre-schism, Western saints venerated in Orthodox communions?

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Elizium23

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I would like to know about the veneration of Western saints who lived long before the Great Schism. Just to take a random example, Pope Saint Evaristus. I have not found any reliable evidence that this Catholic saint is venerated by the Eastern Orthodox Church. He should be, as his life was long before the Schism broke apart the Church, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the Eastern Orthodox have removed saints from the calendar possibly because they are Western. Another case in point, Eusebius of Milan, not a Pope.

I checked two EO calendars (Greek Orthodox and OCA) for these saints on the appropriate feast days, and found nothing. I can’t find a full online copy of a Synaxarion that might be the final word on the matter. Does anyone out there have a copy?

Reliable secondary sources are preferred since I am doing formal research on this. Please hyperlink your sources. Anecdotes and bare assertions are nice but not, ultimately, helpful to me.
 
Well, I was able to find Sts. Ambrose, Augustine, Gregory the Great, Jerome, Leo the Great, and Patrick on the Greek Orthodox calendar.
 
Elizium23 said:
I would like to know about the veneration of Western saints who lived long before the Great Schism. Just to take a random example, Pope Saint Evaristus. I have not found any reliable evidence that this Catholic saint is venerated by the Eastern Orthodox Church. He should be, as his life was long before the Schism broke apart the Church, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the Eastern Orthodox have removed saints from the calendar possibly because they are Western. Another case in point, Eusebius of Milan, not a Pope.

I checked two EO calendars (Greek Orthodox and OCA) for these saints on the appropriate feast days, and found nothing. I can’t find a full online copy of a Synaxarion that might be the final word on the matter. Does anyone out there have a copy?

Reliable secondary sources are preferred since I am doing formal research on this. Please hyperlink your sources. Anecdotes and bare assertions are nice but not, ultimately, helpful to me.
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Why should they celebrate evaristus? Do they have to celebrate everyone you personally like? Just because the west celebrates a saint doesn’t mean the east should. Not everyone’s calendar is the same.

St Gregory the great though is an example of a saint they do celebrate.
 
Saint Irineous of Lion
Saint Climent of Rome
Saint Ipolit of Rome
Saint martyr Justin the Philosopher
Saint Abrose of Milan
Blessed Augustine (Not called a saint in the Orthodox Church)
Saint Gregory the Great of Rome
Saint Honorius of Rome

These are most important, but the list is much bigger. I mean the list is really huge. Basically all saints before 1054, only those who opposed Eastern Orthodox teachings, they are not on the list.

orthodoxengland.org.uk/saintsa.htm
 
Elizium23 said:
I would like to know about the veneration of Western saints who lived long before the Great Schism. Just to take a random example, Pope Saint Evaristus. I have not found any reliable evidence that this Catholic saint is venerated by the Eastern Orthodox Church. He should be, as his life was long before the Schism broke apart the Church, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the Eastern Orthodox have removed saints from the calendar possibly because they are Western. Another case in point, Eusebius of Milan, not a Pope.

I checked two EO calendars (Greek Orthodox and OCA) for these saints on the appropriate feast days, and found nothing. I can’t find a full online copy of a Synaxarion that might be the final word on the matter. Does anyone out there have a copy?

Reliable secondary sources are preferred since I am doing formal research on this. Please hyperlink your sources. Anecdotes and bare assertions are nice but not, ultimately, helpful to me.
Click to expand...
:tsktsk:

Wrong attitude.

orthodoxwiki.org/List_of_Popes_of_Rome
 
The OP mentioned that Orthodox have might have been trying to remove western saints, solely because they are western. I don’t know of a concerted effort to do that, though there is a tendency for some to not consider Saint Augustine a saint because of his influence and importance in the west as well as his theology. You can guess what camp I belong to as regards to whether or not Saint Augustine is a saint.

Augustine is probably the most problematic figure, mainly because Orthodox engagement with Augustine is relatively new (only in the last one hundred or maybe two hundred years has Augustine been seriously considered and read). His theology is also problematic. I would note however, despite this lack of interaction with Augustine it is only modern Orthodox authors who have made the suggestion that he wasn’t a Saint.

Saint Photios the great, no lover of the filioque, when confronted with passages from Augustine on the filioque did not call Augustine a heretic, he defended Augustine as a Saint despite his error of the filioque because he did not believe Augustine proposed it with malicious or heretical view in mind.

I do not think the Orthodox remove saints solely because they were western, otherwise Saint Ambrose wouldn’t be a saint along with Pope Gregory, Irenaeus and others. Naturally Orthodoxy remains home with it’s thought in the east, that of Maximos the confessor, the mystical tradition found in the philokalia and post schism saints like Saint Gregory Palamas or Symeon the New Theologian. An apparent lack of reverence towards a particular figure is not necessarily on purpose or directly malicious but simply the result of the Orthodox focus on those particular figures.
 
Hi,
MY son converted to Orthodoxy, in order to marry his wife in the Republic of Georgia. They live in the Silk Rd, within the caucus mts. Anyway, I was disheartened that they teach Orthodox believers cannot sit in a Roman church. My sweet daughter in law,and I mean that stated they have different saints. I said, I would imagine so, as Saints are made with Godly behavior in a geographical location. St. Sedona brought Christianity to Georgia. So, I started some research. I did find St. John Chrystosomos. I am not sure of that spelling
We share him. Before 500AD, when Rome sent Templer Knights to massacre Orthodox people for heresies,we probably shared more. I wonder about Augustine. St, Maran brought Christianity to Lebanon. That is why we have Maranite Catholics who are under Rome
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice 🤷
 
Elizium23 said:
I would like to know about the veneration of Western saints who lived long before the Great Schism. Just to take a random example, Pope Saint Evaristus. I have not found any reliable evidence that this Catholic saint is venerated by the Eastern Orthodox Church. He should be, as his life was long before the Schism broke apart the Church, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the Eastern Orthodox have removed saints from the calendar possibly because they are Western. Another case in point, Eusebius of Milan, not a Pope.

I checked two EO calendars (Greek Orthodox and OCA) for these saints on the appropriate feast days, and found nothing. I can’t find a full online copy of a Synaxarion that might be the final word on the matter. Does anyone out there have a copy?

Reliable secondary sources are preferred since I am doing formal research on this. Please hyperlink your sources. Anecdotes and bare assertions are nice but not, ultimately, helpful to me.
Click to expand...
Intersting enough, controversial pope Liberius is venerated as saint in the EOC.
 
tweedlealice said:
Hi,
MY son converted to Orthodoxy, in order to marry his wife in the Republic of Georgia. They live in the Silk Rd, within the caucus mts. Anyway, I was disheartened that they teach Orthodox believers cannot sit in a Roman church. My sweet daughter in law,and I mean that stated they have different saints. I said, I would imagine so, as Saints are made with Godly behavior in a geographical location. St. Sedona brought Christianity to Georgia. So, I started some research. I did find St. John Chrystosomos. I am not sure of that spelling
We share him. Before 500AD, when Rome sent Templer Knights to massacre Orthodox people for heresies,we probably shared more. I wonder about Augustine. St, Maran brought Christianity to Lebanon. That is why we have Maranite Catholics who are under Rome
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice 🤷
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting that, Tweedlealice. As far as “they teach Orthodox believers cannot sit in a Roman church”, I would guess that that’s only taught by some “fundamentalist” Orthodox (just like “fundamentalist” Catholics have some pretty extreme teachings against the Orthodox).

Oh, and your year must be wrong. The Knights Templar started in the twelveth century, according to Wikipedia.

That’s all for now. 🙂
 
Elizium23 said:
I have this sneaking suspicion that the Eastern Orthodox have removed saints from the calendar possibly because they are Western.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. I went to a Russian Orthodox church to venerate a miraculous icon of the Mother of God and they proudly pointed out to me their cherished relics of St. Ambrose of Milan.

Christus natus est!
 
I have an Orthodox Study Bible that constantly offers commentary from St. John Chrisostom among others.
 
AKDee said:
I have an Orthodox Study Bible that constantly offers commentary from St. John Chrisostom among others.
Click to expand...
St. John Chrysostom, though venerated in the west, was not a western saint.
 
AKDee said:
I have an Orthodox Study Bible that constantly offers commentary from St. John Chrisostom among others.
Click to expand...
St. John Chrysostom was called from Antioch to be the Patriarch of Constantinople, which later came to be the center of Orthodoxy.

Pax Christi
 
👍
Peter_J said:
Good point, I was forgetting about the Teutonic knights.
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Salutations everyone,
I stand corrected on the century and I thank you. Do you know what Geogian Orthodoxy believe at death. Their Babuska Mariam died first. They leave a door open so the soul can leave and visit the family here on earth for three days?Sometimes they take the door off and place her in the coffin on the door. She was put in the coffin immediately. Some of this is worrisome depending on the weather. Summer they kept putting ice in the casket, probably under plastic, so the loved one is dressed nicely and not getting wet. Three days they stay in the house. I think they put herbs around for odor control. In the winter, I assume (you know assuming is wrong) the door is only cracked. It is freezing over there in winter! Then, your spirit travels through 3 or 7 doors. The first few doors you battle w demons till the later doors which bring you closer and eventually to heaven. PHEW! I should ask if they have purgatory or if the battles w the demons is their substitute. What if you loose? And you were a good person? Maybe depending on your goodness you get angelic help? I’ll have to ask Mariam. Or I could read this book on Orthodoxy someone gave me. I know the Russian Patriarch and Pope John Paul II were close and agreed with some theology. But Georgians hate Russians and they do what they want. There is a letter from an Orthodox priest from Georgia that coming together w Rome cannot happen. If it did there would be some schism where some priests would leave. It’s still on the Internet somewhere. It made me sad. Unity doesn’t change the culture of how you express your worship. It just means we agree on most theology. Like sharing communion. We could go to one of their masses and it would count. I feel they believe they are the ones going to heaven. My sweet daughter in law asked me to convert. My son had to convert to marry Mariam. Life is a learning lesson.
Jesus is our center of love. Their priest thinks I’m cool. I hope to go over in the spring. There is a Roman church in Tiblisi. They drive crazy over there. I’ll take a taxi and wear a blindfold.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
God join our hearts as one. Let there not be hate. Let us rejoice in what we share.
 
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