Pre-tribulation or Post-tribulation Raputer

[shawn34_a]

I’m Catholic and find that the church beliefs in a pre-tribulation rapture interesting. Where is this substantiated in the Bible? I can find probably 8 to 10 instances in the NT that the rapture occurs at the last trumpet or on the last day. My point is that those of us that are alive at the time of the abomination desolation are going through the tribulation. Those that are lukewarm christians will have their faith tested at that point. We’ll have to run the race like Paul did. The second coming of Jesus is not going to happen until after the tribulation ends and before God spills out the vials on those left behind that received the mark of the beast.

 

[SueKrum]

As far as I know, the Church does NOT believe in a pre-trib rapture. there is a bunch of info about it on catholic.com. you should check it out. It may answer all of your questions.

 

[dumspirospero]

When did The Catholic Church start believing in the rapture? If we did…that is news to me.

 

[Sixtus]

nd before God spills out the vials on those left behind that received the mark of the beast.

Lord take me before hand that I may not weaken and fail thee at that moment of testing. Death would be a nobler choice than to run the risk of failing in my faith

 

[Sixtus]

All you peoples, clap your hands; shout to God with joyful cries. PS 47:2

for the Lord the most hight we must fear, Great king above all the earth.
For the Lord the most High we must fear, great King above all earth.In His hands are the depths of the earth the heights of the mountains are His. To Him belong the seas for He made them and the dry land shaped by His hands

The Lord goes up with shouts of joy, the Lord ascends with trumpet blast, sing praise to God sing praise, sing praise to the King sing praise.

Ah those wonderful words. so full of richness, so full of meaning

 

[kleary]

I’m Catholic and find that the church beliefs in a pre-tribulation rapture interesting. Where is this substantiated in the Bible? I can find probably 8 to 10 instances in the NT that the rapture occurs at the last trumpet or on the last day. My point is that those of us that are alive at the time of the abomination desolation are going through the tribulation. Those that are lukewarm christians will have their faith tested at that point. We’ll have to run the race like Paul did. The second coming of Jesus is not going to happen until after the tribulation ends and before God spills out the vials on those left behind that received the mark of the beast.

There is no such belief in Christianity of a “Pre-Tribulation Rapture”. This concept was invented in the 1800’s by Fundamentalist Protestants. It has no ground in Scripture or Tradition- Tradition confirms Scripture. If this Pre-Trib rapture were true than it would be taught from day one- it would not have been “sealed” for the first 1800 years of Christianity just waiting to be discovered in the 1800’s by heretics.

Who do you think will be the ones departing from the faith when the Antichrist comes? Those who have been “born again” and have not been raptured. They will believe that they have been raptured away and will worship the Antichrist believing he is Jesus Himself returned to rule and reign for 1000 years from Jerusalem.

Ken

 

[Unfinished]

When did The Catholic Church start believing in the rapture? If we did…that is news to me.

Yeah, it would be news to me too.

Good thing the Church doesn’t teach the rapture!

 

[shawn34_a]

There is no such belief in Christianity of a “Pre-Tribulation Rapture”. This concept was invented in the 1800’s by Fundamentalist Protestants. It has no ground in Scripture or Tradition- Tradition confirms Scripture. If this Pre-Trib rapture were true than it would be taught from day one- it would not have been “sealed” for the first 1800 years of Christianity just waiting to be discovered in the 1800’s by heretics.

Who do you think will be the ones departing from the faith when the Antichrist comes? Those who have been “born again” and have not been raptured. They will believe that they have been raptured away and will worship the Antichrist believing he is Jesus Himself returned to rule and reign for 1000 years from Jerusalem.

Ken

But all of my family members are devout Catholic. They were all under the impression that the Church would be raptured before the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. It apparently transcends religions.

 

[Ron_Conte]

But all of my family members are devout Catholic. They were all under the impression that the Church would be raptured before the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. It apparently transcends religions.

No, the Church specifically teaches that the Church will suffer through the tribulation. The Church is the body of Christ; the Church must suffer just as Christ suffered.

Catholics believe that we must pray and suffer and do good works in order to participate in our salvation. Protestants typically believe that only faith is needed, not works and not suffering. As a result, they think that the Church (or at least the best Christians) will be raptured, i.e. taken quickly away, so as not to suffer. The idea of the rapture is based on the theology of salvation. The Catholic belief that we benefit, that we merit, by suffering for Christ leads us not to believe in the rapture.

The passage from Paul’s letter that is the basis for the Protestant rapture is actually speaking about the very end of the world (in the very distant future) at the time of the resurrection of the dead. Then, those who are still alive on earth do not die and immediately rise; instead, they receive the benefits of the resurrection without ever dying.

Lo, I tell you a mystery! We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed.

Ron

 

[shawn34_a]

Scripture identifying the rapture (resurrection)

1 Corithians 15:50-54
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”£

1 Thess 4:15-18
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

2 Thess 2:1
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of £Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of £sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits £as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

** This passage gives us a greater understanding when the rapture (calling up to the Lord) occurs. First there’s the great falling away. The son of perdition (antichrist) is revealed, he’ll stand in the rebuilt (3rd) temple, and claim to be God. This occurs (based on the book of Daniel and Revelations), half way through Daniels 70th week (1 day = 1year, spelled out in Daniel also). Animal sacrifices will be halted for there will be no need if you think he’s the Messiah. And there will be great tribulation as never been seen before. Matthew 24, Revelations, Daniel, Mark, Luke, and even in some of the letters of the Saints. All these things come to past before the rapture.

Revelations 16:15-16
15“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, £Armageddon.

Matthew 24:29-35, Mark 13:24-33, Luke 21:20-36 - (parallel passages)
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that £it is near—at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

** Here Jesus loves us so much, he tells us what to look for!

 

[shawn34_a]

More scripture
Revalations 14:14-20
14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a gol
den crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come £for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. 17Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlong**s.

** 10 furlongs = 1 mile. The distance from Armagedon (plains of Magito) to Jerusalem = 160 miles. Coincidence. Don’t think so.

Revelations 20:4-6 (Those who did not receive the mark of the beast during the great tribulation)
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for £a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Matthew 13:24-43 (I started with verse 37 in the paste for it explains all 3 parables)
37 “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

I don’t think the bible can be any more clear. What is even more astounding is that even at the last moment, God being so loving, still gives us a chance to repent if we keep watch.

Revelations 16:15-16 (again)
15“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon
n.

 

[netmilsmom]

We have the “Three Days of Darkness” crowd to overcome the Rapture people.

 

[Unfinished]

But all of my family members are devout Catholic. They were all under the impression that the Church would be raptured before the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation. It apparently transcends religions.

They are misguided, and probably swayed by Protestant thinking.

There is no such thing as the rapture as mainstream Protestants portray.

catholic.com/library/rapture.asp

Christians must suffer through the tribulation. Will there be a type of “rapture” AFTER the tribulation? Perhaps. Although, until the modern day Protestants came along it has never been referered to as the rapture.

 

[historyb]

I can tell you mainline Protestants don’t believe the rapture silliness, er trap either. When I was one we thought the others were nuts and I still do.

 

[Unfinished]

I can tell you mainline Protestants don’t believe the rapture ****, er trap either. When I was one we thought the others were nuts and I still do.

Sorry. I probably should have said “evangelical” Protestantism.

 

[historyb]

No apology needed the way they talk about the rapture it does seem all support it.

 

[Windmill]

Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen is a great resource.

So is Tim Staples’ tapes, The Rapture Files.

These both give a great explanation of how the Church teaches, and has always taught, against this strange and recent novelty of protestantism.

 

[Andruschak]

I’m Catholic and find that the church beliefs in a pre-tribulation rapture interesting. Where is this substantiated in the Bible? .

Nowhere, actually. In any case, the day of judgement is known to God the Father ONLY. Not even the Son knows the date. You think a bunch of whacky so-called “christians” have inside information that Jesus doesn’t?

Do Justice, Love Mercy, walk humbly with God, and don’t worry about Raptures. (Unless there is a sports car named The Rapture, in which case you might get run over )

 

[shawn34_a]

Nowhere, actually. In any case, the day of judgement is known to God the Father ONLY. Not even the Son knows the date. You think a bunch of whacky so-called “christians” have inside information that Jesus doesn’t?

Do Justice, Love Mercy, walk humbly with God, and don’t worry about Raptures. (Unless there is a sports car named The Rapture, in which case you might get run over )

I never said anyone does. Jesus himself said himself, “No one knows the day or hour.” Jesus gives of various parables about waiting for the bridegroom. He also gives us parables that say to be watchful of the signs. So we are told what to watch for for we will know the signs. There are numerous mentions of that through out the NT and OT.

Perhaps you misunderstood my posts, but I never said anyone (but the Father) knows the time, hour, day, and etc. We will recognize the signs though.

 

[Andruschak]

I never said anyone does. Jesus himself said himself, “No one knows the day or hour.” Jesus gives of various parables about waiting for the bridegroom. He also gives us parables that say to be watchful of the signs. So we are told what to watch for for we will know the signs. There are numerous mentions of that through out the NT and OT.

Perhaps you misunderstood my posts, but I never said anyone (but the Father) knows the time, hour, day, and etc. We will recognize the signs though.

Apologies. In my case, I intend to wait until I see those Giant Locusts Decked Out As Horses For Battle, With Womens’ Hair and Lions’ Teeth