Pre-Vatican II Catechism?

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What’s new is that now, religious liberty is a God-given or civil “right” instead of something “tolerated” (in truth, error has no rights), it’s a-okay for the State to be separated from the Church (this idea was formerly condemned), heretics can receive Holy Communion without first abjuring their errors (it used to be sacrilegious), Catholics can take an active part in non-Catholic worship (it used to be a sin), and the Eastern Orthodox no longer need to convert in order to ensure their salvation. The Church has also stopped praying for the Jews’ conversion on Good Friday (in the new Mass, anyway).

These are some of the changes I can remember off the top of my head.

God bless! 🙂
So then, would you say it is better for someone just learning about Catholicism to study the newest catechism? Otherwise one can get a skewed view of the Church.
 
So then, would you say it is better for someone just learning about Catholicism to study the newest catechism? Otherwise one can get a skewed view of the Church.
Well, it’s the new teachings that, in my humble opinion, can give someone a skewed view of Catholicism.

The new Catechism is generally good (although it’s a bit wordy), but personally, I’d recommend the Revised Baltimore Catechism, No. 3:

http://www.angeluspress.org/uploads/catalog98.jpg
 
Well, I have to tread lightly, so I don’t break any rules. Therefore, I’ll let you do some research and find out for yourself. 🙂 Here are some links which substantiate my claims:

A healthy laicism: “In current circumstances, by recalling the value for public and private life of certain ethical principles rooted in the great Christian heritage of Europe, and in particular of Italy, we commit no violation of the laicism of the State, rather we contribute to guaranteeing and promoting the dignity of the person and the common good of society. … without doubt, a healthy laicism of the state ensures that temporal matters are dealt with according to their own norms; to this, however, are associated ethical concerns that have their foundations in the very essence of man and that therefore, in the final analysis, can be traced back to the Creator” (Pope Benedict XVI).

catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?7715-Pope-on-ethical-principles-and-laicism-of-the-State

Compare with: seattlecatholic.com/a050615.html

The civil right of religious liberty: vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651207_dignitatis-humanae_en.html

“Religious communities rightfully claim freedom in order that they may govern themselves according to their own norms, honor the Supreme Being in public worship … also have the right not to be hindered in their public teaching and witness to their faith, whether by the spoken or by the written word” (n. 4).

A couple of articles which showcase the traditional doctrine: catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/defense/rbity.htm
catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/liberty.htm

Liturgical prayer with heretics permitted: vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html (see par. 118 )

On the contrary, the old catechisms taught: “A Catholic sins against the faith by… taking part in non-Catholic worship.” And the 1917 Code taught that Catholics who worship with non-Catholics were suspect of heresy; see can. 2316; cf. 1258 ).

Heretics and schismatics can receive Holy Communion: “Catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church” (1983 Code of Canon Law, can. 844, §4).

On the contrary, the 1917 Code stated, “It is forbidden to administer the sacraments of the Church to heretics or schismatics, even though they err in good faith and ask for them, unless they have first renounced their errors and been reconciled with the Church” (can. 731 §2).

The Eastern Orthodox can be saved outside the Church: vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/ch_orthodox_docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930624_lebanon_en.html

The above document contradicts the Council of Florence quite directly (cf. Denz. 714).

Good Friday prayer for the Jews: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Prayer_for_the_Jews#1970_prayer All that’s asked for is that they remain faithful to their covenant (no mention of conversion to Christ).
Thank you vey much!
 
So then, would you say it is better for someone just learning about Catholicism to study the newest catechism? Otherwise one can get a skewed view of the Church.
I would recommend the Roman Catechism for its brevity and its conciseness, something which I do not find in the new CCC.

I never care for the Baltimore Catechism as I do not like Question and Answer format, however if you are into reading that format, then I would reccomend this catechism.

God Bless.
 
I like the Baltimore Catechism. I got the books 1 and 2, and its like having a refresher course in the basics of my faith. So what if the illustrations are people in 1950’s clothes and hairstyles, that does not concern me.

I do want to get the FC edition of the Baltimore Catechism, and the other 2 in the series. I lent my mother my large Catechism of the Catholic Church and a smaller version of the Catechism, and need to find a copy for myself to keep.
 
Well, it’s the new teachings that, in my humble opinion, can give someone a skewed view of Catholicism.

The new Catechism is generally good (although it’s a bit wordy), but personally, I’d recommend the Revised Baltimore Catechism, No. 3:

http://www.angeluspress.org/uploads/catalog98.jpg
I am with you. If you really want to read something that is Traditional Catholicism subscribe to the Catholic Family News. I think it is well worth the read.
 
I am with you. If you really want to read something that is Traditional Catholicism subscribe to the Catholic Family News. I think it is well worth the read.
Lets have some full disclosure. Catholic Family News is a hardcore traditionalist Catholic newspaper. That’s not a bad thing, but we should make sure people understand what you are recommending:

Catholic Family News > The Remnant > The Wanderer > National Catholic Register

Something like that.
 
Lets have some full disclosure. Catholic Family News is a hardcore traditionalist Catholic newspaper. That’s not a bad thing, but we should make sure people understand what you are recommending:

Catholic Family News > The Remnant > The Wanderer > National Catholic Register

Something like that.
You are exactly right. I guess that is why I like it so much.
Thanks for clearing that up for the others.
 
Is there a catechism that was written before Vatican II? I just want to see how the beliefs differed between pre-Vatican II and post-Vatican II.
When I studied to become a Roman Catholic, the elderly priest I studied with used the pre-Vatican II Baltimore Catechism, even though my conversion took place in the late 1970s.
 
When I studied to become a Roman Catholic, the elderly priest I studied with used the pre-Vatican II Baltimore Catechism, even though my conversion took place in the late 1970s.
In the parish I attend, converts are taught the faith through instruction by the priest using the Baltimore Catechism. And that’s in 2011. 👍
 
In the parish I attend, converts are taught the faith through instruction by the priest using the Baltimore Catechism. And that’s in 2011. 👍
That totally rocks! 😃

I still have the original copy that Father gave me in 1978 (though I don’t know whatever happened to that bizarre “The Catechism for NOW” they made him give me too (or whatever it was called, the one with the modernistic line-drawings on the cover, lol)

I will never forget the first time we sat down for catechism lessons…I was 18 and Father had a modernistic catechism book on his desk. He said, “This is the catechism they want me to use with you.” And then he said, “But this is the one we’re going to use” and then he opened a drawer on his desk and took out the Baltimore Catechism and looked at me with a mischievous grin. I LOVED it!

(He gave me the other one and said I could look through it, but we wouldn’t be using it.)
 

And from my reading of the Roman Catechism it is helping me to learn and appreciate the New.

God Bless.
Is the Roman Catechism the catechism of the Council of Trent? Just need some clarification. If it isn’t could you provide a link to purchase (book format)?
 
Is the Roman Catechism the catechism of the Council of Trent? Just need some clarification. If it isn’t could you provide a link to purchase (book format)?
Yes it is.

God bless.
 
That totally rocks! 😃
Great story Zhenia!

Here’s one of the books we use for first communion preparation. It’s great.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
amazon.com/Saint-Joseph-First-Communion-Catechism/dp/0899422403/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1310354332&sr=1-2

And here’s some more catechisms and other good books on doctrine:

baroniuspress.com/category.php?wid=63&cid=6
fraternitypublications.com/catechisms.html
tanbooks.com/index.php/Church-Theology
 
Will,

TAN always had great books! I still have some that I saved from years ago, like MORAL THEOLOGY by Fr Heribert Jone, and The Catechism of the Council of Trent. They have brought many fantastic Catholic books back into print and kept them there.
 
Is the Roman Catechism approved by the Vatican?
It was commissioned by the Council of Trent and promulgated by Pope St. Pius V in 1566. Numerous Pontiffs have praised it and said that it should be the basis for all catechetical instruction.

Scroll down to the section titled, Authority and Excellence of the Roman Catechism: fordham.edu/halsall/mod/romancat.html

Pope Clement XIII, In Dominico Agro: papalencyclicals.net/Clem13/c13indom.htm

Pope Leo XIII, Depuis Le Jour: papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13depui.htm

Pope St. Pius X, Acerbo Nimis: papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10chdoc.htm
 
I found a copy of the Baltimore Catechism in a used book store (great shape btw) for a $1. It’s fantastic and easy to read and absorb. I love the more recent Catechism as well and they do not contradict each other at all.
 
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