"Pre-Vatican II Latin" Roman Catholic Church

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Wife.of.Gabriel

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I’m Homeschooling and we’ll be learning Latin this year. I found a Latin Mass in our town at a Church that calls itself “Pre-Vatican II Latin Roman Catholic Church” on it’s website. This parish doesn’t show up in our Diocese’s Parish Finder. The Latin Masses at parishes within our Diocese are about an hour away.

I guess my question is, is their Eucharist actually the Eucharist? I’m asking because when we attend to practice our Latin, I don’t want us to worship the Eucharist during their Mass if it’s not really Jesus Christ. I just don’t want us to accidentally commit Idolatry. How can I know for certain?

TIA
 
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It doesn’t sound licit to me. Surely there are better places to learn Latin.
 
And ask them who is the current pope. If they say the see is vacant, I wouldn’t go back.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
I just don’t want us to accidentally commit Idolatry.
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Firstly you can’t sin by accident.

Secondly, if you don’t know it isn’t Jesus/consecrated host - there can be no idolatry. If you knew it wasn’t a consecrated host/Jesus and then willingly worhsipped what you knew was not - then you’ve committed idolatry.

Idolatry is the worshiping of something that is not God. Those worshiping the golden calf did so knowing this object which they created themselves, was not God, and worshipped and bowed down before this object knowingly it was not Him.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
I found a Latin Mass in our town . . .This parish doesn’t show up in our Diocese’s Parish Finder. The Latin Masses at parishes within our Diocese are about an hour away.
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It doesn’t sound right to me. If it was, it would be listed for your Diocese.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
I guess my question is, is their Eucharist actually the Eucharist?
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In all likelihood, yes. The Masses are probably valid but illicit. Generally speaking, traditionalist “splinter groups” are very particular about ensuring that their Holy Orders are in apostolic succession. Some even have multiple episcopal lineages just to cover all the bases. Not advocating this, just stating the fact.

That is not to say, though, that you should attend them. Latin Masses in union with the diocese are perfectly fine. Society of St Pius X (SSPX) masses, while not fully authorized, are in a kind of ecclesiastical “gray area”. Various Vatican officials have had no problem with attending them per se, though they warn against becoming affiliated with these chapels. Better to stick with the diocese.

Sedevacantist chapels are another thing entirely. They deny that Pope Francis (and more often, several popes before him) is truly the Pope. Their masses are not celebrated “una cum”, i.e., he is not mentioned in the eucharistic canon. The SSPX are “una cum”; they are not sedevacantists.

Some other independent chapels, not SSPX, are “una cum”. They regard Francis as a valid pope and include him in the canon. However, it is better to stay away from them too.

Again, far better to stick with the diocese.
 
If the parish is not listed in the parishes for your diocese, it’s highly likely that it’s some schismatic group. Also “Pre-Vatican II Latin Roman Catholic Church” sounds highly suspect. I am not aware of any legitimate TLM parish that calls itself that.

I would just avoid them if I were you. If you absolutely must check them out, call your diocesan office and ask about them.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
In all likelihood, yes. The Masses are probably valid but illicit.
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I don’t see how you have any way of knowing this. You just made a huge generalization assuming it’s a traditionalist parish. It doesn’t even seem to be calling itself SSPX (or FSSP for that matter) and could be a front for Satanists for all you know.

OP, please call your diocese and ask about this group.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
In all likelihood, yes. The Masses are probably valid but illicit.
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I was referring to the various groups that have valid (though illicit) apostolic succession (Thuc, Duarte Costa, et al).

I was not referring to any fraudulent groups using the traditional Latin Mass as a “front”. I suppose it’s possible, but I’ve never heard of it.
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HomeschoolDad said:
In all likelihood, yes. The Masses are probably valid but illicit.
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Okay. My thought process was to attend daily Mass for Homeschool. Attending the 2 English Masses & 1 Spanish Masses offered at our Parish during the week and to attend this Latin Mass the twice a week that ‘daily’ Mass isn’t offered at our Parish as we’ll be learning English, Spanish & Latin this year.

This Latin Church’s website states that any Catholic can attend, If dressed properly NO exceptions, but they will not allow anyone to receive Communion there who also attends Masses offered in the vernacular. So I definitely know they’re not fully part of our Church, but just want to ensure while visiting we don’t kneel & worship the Eucharist, if it’s not really Jesus, but that we do, if it is. Like, is there status the same as the Orthodox? Not in union with the Pope, but maintaining Apostolic Succession & valid Eucharist? We’re allowed to receive Communion there, IF they allow us to?

Now, we maintain friendships with people of all different Faith beliefs, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, etc. and sometimes visit their various temples of worship as like a “field trip” to experience various different cultures & hear different languages, so I’d think this would be somewhat similar, but a little different since they share much of their history with us, just not the last century or so.
 
If this type of church is as you say, I tend to think that anyone who is not kneeling and worshipping Eucharist when everybody else is would at the very least get a big fish eye, if not told to get with the kneeling or leave.

It sounds like you are determined to go to this church despite the fact that there are red flags all over the place signifying that a faithful Catholic should not be attending such a place. Have it your way, I guess.
 
So this is a church that won’t even allow you to go to Communion, and yet you want to go to Mass and bring your children there twice a week? I would encourage you to stay very far away from the place. Better to drive to Latin Mass an hour away than to regularly visit such a church.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
This Latin Church’s website states that any Catholic can attend, If dressed properly NO exceptions, but they will not allow anyone to receive Communion there who also attends Masses offered in the vernacular.
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I would not go there on principle based on this statement.
 
nightshade said:
I would not go there on principle based on this statement.
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Indeed. Given this information, there is zero chance that this place is on the up-and-up with the local diocese.

Are their priests valid priests ordained by a valid bishop with legitimate apostolic succession? Maybe. But frankly it doesn’t matter. Given that they won’t even give the Eucharist to those who attend Mass in the vernacular, that’s not a church any Catholic should support, nor bring their children to, unless we want to teach our children that it is okay to break off from the Catholic Church and do our own thing.
 
Joe_5859 said:
So this is a church that won’t even allow you to go to Communion, and yet you want to go to Mass and bring your children there twice a week? I would encourage you to stay very far away from the place. Better to drive to Latin Mass an hour away than to regularly visit such a church.
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I second this. We have a sedevacantist chapel nearby, but we have never attended and have no plans (or desire) to do so. The nearest una cum TLMs, whether diocesan or SSPX, are two hours away. We have to make a day of it when we go (and do something else educational, thus ensuring a well-rounded school field trip).

For the record, we choose the diocesan masses over the SSPX.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
but they will not allow anyone to receive Communion there who also attends Masses offered in the vernacular. So I definitely know they’re not fully part of our Church,
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I would not want to take my children there and have them think this is acceptable. But that’s me.
 
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