Preaching against cohabitation

[Norseman82]

Two of the most distressing things I have heard in my life:

1. A priest who later became a pastor of a parish I used to attend openly stated in a homily that the Church rules on divorce and remarriage were stupid and tried to use an emotional appeal based on the fact that his sister was not allowed a Catholic wedding to a divorced man. He then stated that if anyone were in such a situation to see him and he would do something about it.
2. A a theology-on-tap that dealt with relationships, the lady sitting next to me asked the speaker about advice on dating a divorced man. The speaker, who was from the Archdiocese office on family ministry, NEVER ONCE mentioned to make sure that the man should have an annulment to ensure he was free to date/marry! I had to mention it to her afterward! (I don’t know if the speaker assumed that we knew that).

 

[Norseman82]

I also personally think that it may not be preached from the pulpit more because there may be young children at Mass and homilists may feel that the subject may not be appropriate for them.

However…

I think that it would be good if we heard more homilies about non-married couples, both opposite and same sex, who are co-habiting.

But…these are the kinds of homilies that cause people, both those who are co-habiting, and their PARENTS and other loved ones, to become angry with the Church, stop attending Mass, and start attending a religious fellowship that doesn’t upset them.

Some of you might say “Good riddance to bad rubbish.”

But is that really the attitude that Catholics should have?

Well, Christ let many leave Him over the doctrine of the Eucharist, and said that He came to sow division, setting family members against each other. He also said that if a brother refuses even to listen to the Church, treat Him like a gentile. Paul also called for the expulsion of a man living in an incestuous relationship with his stepmother, and God told Ezekiel that if we do not warn someone to stop doing wrong we will share in their punishment, but if we do warn them and they do not listen, it is their problem, not ours. And didn’t Pope Benedict XVI say something about a smaller but more devout Church?

Honestly, we need to stop being afraid of teaching what the Church says because it might hurt somebody’s feelings. I know that the Church is a “hospital for sinners”, but what good is it if the patients refuse to take their medicine? Or if we prevent doctors from making diagnoses and prescribing treatments because people don’t want to hear the bad news or don’t like the taste of their medicine?

 

[Vico]

So you want priests to preach against couple that are already married “co-habitating” with each other because their marriage might be invalid? Sorry, I don’t think that’s the right approach.

The Church presumes a marriage to be valid until proven otherwise. There are very good reasons for this. To do what you are suggesting would require that the Church deputizes pastors to make on-the-fly judgments about the validity of people’s marriages. What a recipe for disaster!

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are suggesting.

Here is the subtlety (from Atchdiocese of Boston Tribunal): If the proper form, being married in the presence of a priest or deacon, is not followed on the wedding day, the faith community does not recognize the union as a marriage. There is no presumption of validity in this instance. So there is no presumption in law to overturn.

For example, if two baptized Catholics decide to marry in the presence of a Justice of the Peace, instead of a priest, they have not observed the form of marriage. By choosing not to observe the proper form of marriage, they have chosen not to have their union recognized as a valid marriage by the faith community.

There is also another detail sometimes glossed over. This rule also includes Catholics that were validly baptized in a non-Catholic baptism and later received by the Catholic Church.

 

[Cat]

I also personally think that it may not be preached from the pulpit more because there may be young children at Mass and homilists may feel that the subject may not be appropriate for them.

However…

Well, Christ let many leave Him over the doctrine of the Eucharist, and said that He came to sow division, setting family members against each other. He also said that if a brother refuses even to listen to the Church, treat Him like a gentile. Paul also called for the expulsion of a man living in an incestuous relationship with his stepmother, and God told Ezekiel that if we do not warn someone to stop doing wrong we will share in their punishment, but if we do warn them and they do not listen, it is their problem, not ours. And didn’t Pope Benedict XVI say something about a smaller but more devout Church?

Honestly, we need to stop being afraid of teaching what the Church says because it might hurt somebody’s feelings. I know that the Church is a “hospital for sinners”, but what good is it if the patients refuse to take their medicine? Or if we prevent doctors from making diagnoses and prescribing treatments because people don’t want to hear the bad news or don’t like the taste of their medicine?

The hospital analogy is a good one. I work in a hospital.

Yes, we can’t force patients to take their medicine or be compliant with their treatments. But we can’t tell them to leave, either. What we try to do is figure out a way to convince them to be compliant. We bring in specialists–counselors, social workers, priests and ministers, gurus, family members, celebrities, housekeeping (yes, some patients will listen to the lady who cleans their room more willingly then they listen to their doctor!). We never tell them to get out, or hold the door open and point.

And doctors do have different ways of informing people about their conditions. Sometimes, doctors DON’T disclose the entire truth, because they know that the patient will not take it well and will, in all likelihood, refuse to comply with the treatments out of despair or anger. Sometimes doctors give a partial version of the truth to the patient.

I think we have to be really, REALLY careful when we are quoting Jesus and His apostles. For every passage you find that makes it appear that harshness is the best way to handle sinners, I can find a passage that says that gentleness is the best way. I think that this demonstrates the vital importance of trusting our priests and bishops and allowing them to choose which homilies they will preach, and how they will strike a balance between preaching fire and brimstone, and preaching love and forgiveness.

Finally, I think that the issue of co-habitation is one that the laypeople can really influence, not necessarily through words, but through example. My daughters learned from their mom and dad that God’s way, the BEST way, is marriage followed by sex followed by babies! Other ways will lead to heartbreak, a breakdown of society, and of course, sin and separation from God.

But obviously, laypeople have to tread carefully, too, and be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. If I am speaking out against co-habitation, I have to be careful not to get myself FIRED at work for doing so! (And this is reality for those of us who work.) What good would that do?

 

[Norseman82]

The hospital analogy is a good one. I work in a hospital.

Yes, we can’t force patients to take their medicine or be compliant with their treatments. But we can’t tell them to leave, either. What we try to do is figure out a way to convince them to be compliant. We bring in specialists–counselors, social workers, priests and ministers, gurus, family members, celebrities, housekeeping (yes, some patients will listen to the lady who cleans their room more willingly then they listen to their doctor!). We never tell them to get out, or hold the door open and point.

And doctors do have different ways of informing people about their conditions. Sometimes, doctors DON’T disclose the entire truth, because they know that the patient will not take it well and will, in all likelihood, refuse to comply with the treatments out of despair or anger. Sometimes doctors give a partial version of the truth to the patient.

I think we have to be really, REALLY careful when we are quoting Jesus and His apostles. For every passage you find that makes it appear that harshness is the best way to handle sinners, I can find a passage that says that gentleness is the best way. I think that this demonstrates the vital importance of trusting our priests and bishops and allowing them to choose which homilies they will preach, and how they will strike a balance between preaching fire and brimstone, and preaching love and forgiveness.

Finally, I think that the issue of co-habitation is one that the laypeople can really influence, not necessarily through words, but through example. My daughters learned from their mom and dad that God’s way, the BEST way, is marriage followed by sex followed by babies! Other ways will lead to heartbreak, a breakdown of society, and of course, sin and separation from God.

But obviously, laypeople have to tread carefully, too, and be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. If I am speaking out against co-habitation, I have to be careful not to get myself FIRED at work for doing so! (And this is reality for those of us who work.) What good would that do?

However, if a smoker gets offended when a doctor says that smoking is bad for you, does that mean that the medical profession should stay silent about the dangers of smoking? The medical profession did not drive the smoker away; the smoker FREELY CHOSE to walk away.

It’s one thing if the homilist uses Rush Limbaugh or Fred Phelps language, but if the core issue is that it is the Church teaching that people are offended by and they want the Church to change its stance and are going to disrupt the Church if it doesn’t (think of the Rainbow Sash protesters), then yes, let them leave and tell them the Church doors will always be open if they change their minds (remember that Jesus also said that if one town will not receive you, shake the dust off your feet and move on).

 

[jeanannemarie]

Of course everyone is welcome at Mass regardless of their status, However, you must be in a state of grace to receive Communion and other Sacraments. That is the difference that I see.