Precedence of Patriarchs, Cardinals, and Popes

[Alexander_Roman]

One could drop that name, but the powers that are part and parcel of the office is also controversial with the Orthodox Church: “The office uniquely committed by the Lord to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, abides in the Bishop of the Church of Rome.”

CIC Can. 375 §1 By divine institution, Bishops succeed the Apostles through the Holy Spirit who is given to them. They are constituted Pastors in the Church, to be the teachers of doctrine, the priests of sacred worship and the ministers of governance.
§2 By their episcopal consecration, Bishops receive, together with the office of sanctifying, the offices also of teaching and of ruling, which however, by their nature, can be exercised only in hierarchical communion with the head of the College and its members.

Yes, this does reflect Western ecclesiology where the Pope is, in a sense, the “super Bishop” of the world with the other bishops as his dependents etc.

Eastern ecclesiology is a tad different and poses the main stumbling block for reunion, even after all other matters could/would be resolved.

But this isn’t insuperable. In a united “Orthodox Catholic Church,” it is only logical that all the bishops of the world, Eastern and Western, would be in communion with the major Patriarchates, with the Pope of Rome as “first among equals” and first plenipotentiary in terms of jurisdiction. As long as the collegical aspect is preserved, I don’t believe that would be an insuperable problem.

Alex

 

[Vico]

Yes, this does reflect Western ecclesiology where the Pope is, in a sense, the “super Bishop” of the world with the other bishops as his dependents etc.

Eastern ecclesiology is a tad different and poses the main stumbling block for reunion, even after all other matters could/would be resolved.

But this isn’t insuperable. In a united “Orthodox Catholic Church,” it is only logical that all the bishops of the world, Eastern and Western, would be in communion with the major Patriarchates, with the Pope of Rome as “first among equals” and first plenipotentiary in terms of jurisdiction. As long as the collegical aspect is preserved, I don’t believe that would be an insuperable problem.

Alex

Per Catholic doctrine, hierachical communion includes acceptance of the jurisdictional primacy of the pope.

The College of Bishops also have supreme and full power in the universal Church (but not freely exercised as has the pope). Immediate power means intervention on all levels of ecclesial jurisdiction.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Per Catholic doctrine, hierachical communion includes acceptance of the jurisdictional primacy of the pope.

The College of Bishops also have supreme and full power in the universal Church (but not freely exercised as has the pope). Immediate power means intervention on all levels of ecclesial jurisdiction.

As per Catholic doctrine, I acceptance the jurisdictional primacy of the Pope!

As an Eastern Catholic, however, that primacy is shared with our Patriarchs/Primates in the sense that the Pope is not the “immediate CEO” over our affairs.

If we need him to intervene, we know where to find him.

Otherwise, I’m sure he has lots to keep him busy in jurisdictional terms re: the Latin Church.

Alex

 

[Vico]

As per Catholic doctrine, I acceptance the jurisdictional primacy of the Pope!

As an Eastern Catholic, however, that primacy is shared with our Patriarchs/Primates in the sense that the Pope is not the “immediate CEO” over our affairs.

If we need him to intervene, we know where to find him.

Otherwise, I’m sure he has lots to keep him busy in jurisdictional terms re: the Latin Church.

Alex

The rule of the patriarchal churches is relative self-rule because the supreme authority of the Church promulgates or approves the law for and also recognizes the churches sui iuris. In some matters also, the Supreme Pontiff may intervene. For example:

CCEO 72.2. If an election is not successful within fifteen days from the opening of the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church, the matter devolves to the Roman Pontiff.
CCEO 78

1. The power which, according to the norm of the canons and legitimate customs, the patriarch has over bishops and other Christian faithful of the Church over which he presides is ordinary and proper, but personal. Thus, the patriarch cannot constitute a vicar for the entire patriarchal Church nor can he delegate his power to someone for all cases.
2. The power of the patriarch is exercised validly only inside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church unless the nature of the matter or the common or particular law approved by the Roman Pontiff establishes otherwise.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

As Vatican II demonstrated, things can change!

But the UGCC is, I’m sure, aware of all this. It is just that we’ve learned it is easier to ask for forgiveness rather than to ask for permission!

Alex

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Alex,

By their episcopal consecration, Bishops receive, together with the office of sanctifying, the offices also of teaching and of ruling, which however, by their nature, can be exercised only in hierarchical communion with the head of the College and its members.

Yes, this does reflect Western ecclesiology where the Pope is, in a sense, the “super Bishop” of the world with the other bishops as his dependents etc.

I don’t understand what is particularly “Western” about what that canon states. I think when certain people read it, they automatically home in ONLY on the portion that states “with the head of the College.” For some reason, they stop reading immediately after that, so the next part “AND ITS MEMBERS” is completely neglected.



Maybe its my Oriental upbringing, but I automatically home in on the collegial stuff, instead of the monarchical stuff.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Vico,

Per Catholic doctrine, hierachical communion includes acceptance of the jurisdictional primacy of the pope.

The College of Bishops also have supreme and full power in the universal Church (but not freely exercised as has the pope). Immediate power means intervention on all levels of ecclesial jurisdiction.

The highlighted portion of your statement above is not correct.

Actually, the term “immediate” in canonical jargon has nothing to do with the exercise of jurisdiction. Rather, it refers to the fact that the prerogative comes directly from God, not through any intermediary (hence, “immediate”).

Thus, not only is the term “immediate” used in reference to papal jurisdiction, but it is also used in reference to the jurisdiction of the local bishop.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[gagazhang]

Thanks for sharing the information through your post

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