Precepts/statute?

[valentino]

I don’t actually think God said that (and Google doesn’t think so either).

But, even if, so what? Why not follow God’s laws? We (hopefully) follow driving laws in the country we happen to be driving in. Driving laws change from country to country (and from state to state), but God’s laws are for everyone and they are eternal.

Only a lunatic makes up his own driving laws (red light means go, drive 90 MPH on residential streets, disregard pedestrians in a crosswalk). His “heart” might tell him these things are OK, but I will snatch the keys out of his hand anytime I can, because he’s CRAZY.

Why should God’s laws matter LESS than driving laws?

I felt it necessary to respond.I guess Im not as articulate as many are who post but I was trying to say exactly what you are saying.Sorry.

 

[DavidFilmer]

If the Church “in general” doesn’t loss that “following my heart” mind set, how can it be expected that the world it is in, see otherwise.

Waitaminute - maybe I have misunderstood your question. Your spelling and grammar lead me to suspect you are not a native English speaker, and perhaps you are having difficulty expressing yourself.

Are you asking if the Catholic Church teaches that we should “follow our hearts” regardless of civil law?

If that is your question, then the answer is generally “no.” The exception would be if civil law permits something that is clearly contrary to the doctrine of the Church. My example of driving on the wrong-side of the road would obviously not apply (because the Church does not care which side of the road we should drive on).

However, no faithful Catholic may obtain or participate in an abortion (for example), because this is clearly contrary to Catholic doctrine, regardless of whether it is allowed by civil law.

 

[DPMartin]

DavidFilmer

thanks for the reply

Waitaminute - maybe I have misunderstood your question. Your spelling and grammar lead me to suspect you are not a native English speaker, and perhaps you are having difficulty expressing yourself.

Are you asking if the Catholic Church teaches that we should “follow our hearts” regardless of civil law?

No!

However, no faithful Catholic may obtain or participate in an abortion (for example), because this is clearly contrary to Catholic doctrine, regardless of whether it is allowed by civil law.

No matter what the world does, is it wise to walk about as though you have an ax to grind with it? (If you persist to look upon their sin and hold it against them, should the Lord do the same to you?) The Lord already knows what they do, and why they do it. I don’t see lighting striking them down, do you? Then maybe Mercy, Forgiveness and Salvation is still available to them. Which would not, come by way of their accuser, even if the accuser is correct that they sin.

It is easy to not do, what is allowed by civil law, but what if you lived in China as a citizen when the law was two children per couple? (Not sure if it is still the law there or not)

---

As far as typos, I can type five words, and make ten mistakes. The computer just doesn’t know what I’m trying to say.

 

[DPMartin]

I agree. All we must do is yield to it-with all that implies. I think one difference may still be that, with Catholic teaching, “anyone who turns to Jesus Christ” may also turn away from Him again, just as Adam & Eve were free to turn from God in the beginning. Now while God knows definitively just who will and who will not persevere-(who are His and who are not His in the end)-we can’t know with that same 100% assurance. The Catholic virtue known as Hope is very great-it’s actually a confidence in Gods promises, and yet, while God loves us unconditionally, there’s still a condition on our salvation-we must come to love Him-along with as our neighbor-the same way.

thanks for the reply

Your right, but please keep in mind:

It is true that Jesus said:

Mat:22:
36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.
39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Note verse 40, on this do they hang, but it is not an excuse, or a command to disregard the commandments the law and the prophets.

And He also said at the sermon on the mount:

Mat:5:

17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Please take note that to sinners Jesus’ answer is to forgive, and to accusers His answer was “Wo onto you”. For Salvation cannot be with the accuser.

The commandments the law and the prophets, is what is in the Lord God’s Heart, and was fulfilled.

 

[fhansen]

thanks for the reply

Your right, but please keep in mind:

It is true that Jesus said:

Mat:22:
36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.
39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Note verse 40, on this do they hang, but it is not an excuse, or a command to disregard the commandments the law and the prophets.

Well, love* cannot* be an excuse to disregard the law and the prophets; this would be impossible, in fact, because “…love fulfills the Law” Rom 13:8, at least the kind of love that our faith speaks of and Jesus reveals as the highest good. And this is the very reason why love of God and neighbor are the greatest commandments. This is the goal, this is mans’ justice, and this is why 1Cor 13 is basically telling us that when we have love, we have it all. And this is why faith isn’t enough.
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1John 4:8
To love is to know God. And if we love God we obey His commandments. (John 14:15)

 

[DPMartin]

Well, love* cannot* be an excuse to disregard the law and the prophets; this would be impossible, in fact, because “…love fulfills the Law” Rom 13:8, at least the kind of love that our faith speaks of and Jesus reveals as the highest good. And this is the very reason why love of God and neighbor are the greatest commandments. This is the goal, this is mans’ justice, and this is why 1Cor 13 is basically telling us that when we have love, we have it all. And this is why faith isn’t enough.
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1John 4:8
To love is to know God. And if we love God we obey His commandments. (John 14:15)

Fhansen

thanks for the reply

There is certainly no disagreement there. But back to the subject at hand. If I may say it this way then, if one proclaims his own heart, then is the Love of God in him?

 

[davidv]

Fhansen

thanks for the reply

There is certainly no disagreement there. But back to the subject at hand. If I may say it this way then, if one proclaims his own heart, then is the Love of God in him?

One cannot tell from the information that you provided.

What is it that is being proclaimed?

 

[fhansen]

Fhansen

thanks for the reply

There is certainly no disagreement there. But back to the subject at hand. If I may say it this way then, if one proclaims his own heart, then is the Love of God in him?

If by “proclaims his own heart” we mean to act according to the laws written on it by His Creator, then he would necessarily have the love of God in him, IMO.

 

[DPMartin]

If by “proclaims his own heart” we mean to act according to the laws written on it by His Creator, then he would necessarily have the love of God in him, IMO.

Fhansen
thanks for the reply

Awesome, Awesome, Awesome. Therefore it is not our own heart, it is the Heart of Lord God overwriting ours. Hence your not really proclaiming your’s, but His. But if one proclaims his own heart, then surly it is without His. And if you proclaim your own heart then you do not follow precept nor seek statute. Which, in our case would be Commandment Law and Prophets, fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Which is paramount if the Lord be with you.

To me this is a very important part of it all in the Lord. For if you look at the world around you men cannot escape there own hearts. For they will always seek the fulfillment of there own hearts. But if the Lord has overwritten with His, then one seeks the fulfillment thereof. Which has been fulfilled in the flesh, the Son of man, Jesus Christ which is available to us in Spirit.

 

[DPMartin]

One cannot tell from the information that you provided.

What is it that is being proclaimed?

David
thanks for the reply

Sorry if it seems evasive, maybe the above posting #29 might clear it up.

 

[fhansen]

Fhansen
thanks for the reply

Awesome, Awesome, Awesome. Therefore it is not our own heart, it is the Heart of Lord God overwriting ours. Hence your not really proclaiming your’s, but His. But if one proclaims his own heart, then surly it is without His. And if you proclaim your own heart then you do not follow precept nor seek statute. Which, in our case would be Commandment Law and Prophets, fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Which is paramount if the Lord be with you.

To me this is a very important part of it all in the Lord. For if you look at the world around you men cannot escape there own hearts. For they will always seek the fulfillment of there own hearts. But if the Lord has overwritten with His, then one seeks the fulfillment thereof. Which has been fulfilled in the flesh, the Son of man, Jesus Christ which is available to us in Spirit.

This I agree with so long as it means that, by abiding in the Spirit, i.e. allowing the Spirit to live and operate within- to overwrite our hearts, to replace our stony hearts with hearts of flesh- we can become obedient and fulfill the Law, following Jesus in achieving this justice which He possesses and which God always intended man to have, not by depending on our own power to obey but by depending on Gods power (grace) to obey, IOW depending *on Him *, which our first parents refused to do.

 

[DPMartin]

This I agree with so long as it means that, by abiding in the Spirit, i.e. allowing the Spirit to live and operate within- to overwrite our hearts, to replace our stony hearts with hearts of flesh- we can become obedient and fulfill the Law, following Jesus in achieving this justice which He possesses and which God always intended man to have, not by depending on our own power to obey but by depending on Gods power (grace) to obey, IOW depending *on Him *, which our first parents refused to do.

Fhansen

thanks for the reply

Amen. It is to lay down our own hearts to rest, and walk with the Lord. Not in condemnation of, but in Peace.

Did you notice that the Commandments were written on tablets of stone, with the finger of God?

I live in the desert, and if you have to dig in this ground it’s like digging through asphalt. There is also a small garden on the property where I am at. And one day it was raining. (Rare thing here) And it came to me, the Lord could rain down Blessings from Heaven but if the ground be hardened, the Blessings will just run off the ground and it will never receive the Blessing from Heaven. But the garden did because the ground was broken, ready to receive, and ready to yield to the instructions in the seed set therein.

We forget some times that the Lord has provided, but are we ready to receive.