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TimothyH
Guest
Oooh… suggesting that the priest make a pastoral decision that is not perfectly in line with the rule books is gonna make them
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thewanderer
Guest
Yes it probably will, though I would like to add that I do not believe there is anything in the rubrics which says that lay people must not touch the chalice. So I think the same point can still be made without the idea of any liturgical abuse going on. The Church allows for such an event, and if it is the only way for someone to receive the pastor should make accomadations for them to receive from the chalice. Otherwise they are refusing the great gift of Christ himself to those who have no real reason to be refused. Not a very good way to sheperd ones flock. :nope:Oooh… suggesting that the priest make a pastoral decision that is not perfectly in line with the rule books is gonna make them
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RogerDeCourcy
Guest
I think you receive only one specie in the old rite. I don’t understand some of the previous comments.
I believe I saw where accommodating the laity can go when I saw a woman go up to the altar and help herself to the chalice at an Ash Wednesday mass, once. I think the old rules developed for sound reasons; the Church wasn’t being mean.
If it’s a sacred, mysterious rite, some actions follow and some don’t.
I believe I saw where accommodating the laity can go when I saw a woman go up to the altar and help herself to the chalice at an Ash Wednesday mass, once. I think the old rules developed for sound reasons; the Church wasn’t being mean.
If it’s a sacred, mysterious rite, some actions follow and some don’t.
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maryjk
Guest
So we are back to, if you have Celiac and can’t receive the Host, you are barred from the Sacrament?
Would they even imagine to have a low gluten host? Or would that upset the sensibilities of the EF?
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Corki
Guest
And yet, even before VII, the cup was offered to the laity at certain special Masses. The two times I know of were a bride and groom at the wedding Mass and a priest could offer the cup to his parents at his first Mass after ordination.
Now, I am not quite old enough to have personally experienced either of these Masses.
My guess would be that the priest held the chalice and put it to the communicants lips. When receiving kneeling at the rail, this would be fairly simple.There is nothing inherent in the EF Mass that would prohibit a priest from giving Communion via the cup to someone who could not receive the Blessed Sacrament in the form of a host. It might be logistically awkward to do so for a large group but not for one or a few communicants.
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BertBlyleven
Guest
Well, you’d make a great liberal politician!Yet another reason not to attend the EF of the Mass.
I guess I am not Catholic enough to not get my feelings hurt when a priest looks at me and says “sorry, no sacrament for you.” Do they also regularly refuse Confession to those that can’t get into the Confessional?
I’m joking, of course.
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BertBlyleven
Guest
How do Eastern Rites distribute Communion to those who cannot consume wheat? Do they also refuse them in the same mean manner (sarcasm)?
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BertBlyleven
Guest
I’ll ask an FSSP priest about this, and also about the overweight parishioners who cannot fit inside the confessional (which is a standard reconciliation room at my parish). I have a feeling you really aren’t out to get answers, so I’ll save you the trouble of actually talking to a priest.
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BertBlyleven
Guest
It’s the chalice now, they fixed that with the new translation. At any rate, your argument only holds if the Apostles viewed each species together as absolutely necessary to receive the fullness of the Sacrament. Our faith tells us otherwise, and the faith does not change since it is apostolic. The singing of Axion Estin isn’t literally apostolic in origin, but it embodies the apostolic faith with regard to the Virgin Mary and is a worthy tradition to include in the Liturgy. In that sense, it is apostolic in origin. Read the Roman Catechism with regard to Communion under one kind, even if you aren’t convinced it is worth reading. We are adhering to the traditions because the successors of the apostles have mandated us to. Ultimately it is not our personal opinion.
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maryjk
Guest
Considering the nearest EF is over 2 hours away, with an hour time change. It isn’t simply asking a priest. It is leaving 3 hours before Mass with the hopes of catching him.
But you are right, I am not going to go out of my way to track down an answer. I can attend my local parish and receive the Sacrament every day, if I want. I don’t see driving 4 hours round trip to get one priest’s opinion.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Your sarcasm aside, the priest would do what it takes for someone to receive the Sacrament. It is not much really. In one of our parishes one lady cannot receive the Precious Body. I don’t know the real reason but I can assume its celiac. In any case, the priest sets a second chalice just for her and she always receives last when the priest brings out the chalice for her.
The rubrics doesn’t call for this. It calls for the deacon (if present, if not then the priest) to place all the Precious Body of or Lord into the chalice after the clergy have received communion.
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ProVobis
Guest
Provided they let the priest know ahead of time either way. Generally he consumes everything before the people’s communion. (I don’t know if this is in the rubrics or not.) It doesn’t seem very practical to ask the priest for the Precious Blood at communion time or after Mass when the Precious Blood would have been entirely consumed.
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Corki
Guest
Absolutely! This puts an EF attendee in the same situation as one who attends a OF Mass where only the host is offered. If you need to receive only from the cup or need a low-gluten host, you make arrangements with the priest ahead of time no matter what Mass you go to.
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RogerDeCourcy
Guest
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what would happen to a celiac if they consumed a standard host?
I looked up celiac symptoms but they are wide-ranging and varying in severity.
I looked up celiac symptoms but they are wide-ranging and varying in severity.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
It depends. If the person has been gluten free for some time, he or she could have quite a severe reaction. Sometimes, the body “forgets” the miserable condition it had to accept while not gluten free, and reacts quite violently to any amount of gluten that is re-introduced. IOW, once you heal up from the damage you’ve had before diagnosis, you have to be very careful.
OTOH, if it was a one-time mistake, the person might not outwardly react at all, but their antibodies would definitely be activated, and some amount of damage would be done to their small intestine. You can’t go by symptoms. The symptoms you see described for celiac disease are what an undiagnosed person would experience, not someone who has been GF for a while. So, if your hypothetical Catholic has not been diagnosed, and continues to take the host, they would continue with whatever symptoms they had been having all along. Perhaps if that were the only gluten they were consuming, their symptoms would be minimal, but the damage is being done regardless. In fact the people who are at most risk for intestinal lymphoma (cancer) are the ones who continue to consume some amount of gluten on a regular basis, so this might be the person who consumes the host regardless of the diagnosis.
Any other questions, PM me. Both my sons are GF and have been for years.
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BertBlyleven
Guest
Email, my friend. It isn’t a matter of one priest’s opinion, it’s a matter of what is allowed. Chances are a priest who says the EF knows this, and chances are the laity on CAF do not.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I think it is like an allergy. Yes, the symptoms are wide-ranging. Some just feel the discomfort, some can get seriously ill from it. Some can receive the Eucharist once a week and deal with the effect. And others cannot at all.
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theyoungmonk
Guest
I imagine that a celiac (who could not receive even a low gluten Host) couldgain permission to receive from the chalice from the Ordinary. The best method of reception though would probably be the spoon as seen in eastern parishes so that the Chalice does not need to be touched by a layman. the other option is a “no gluten Host” (though they are not valid matter for consercration) that a celiac may be able to consume which may then be aceptable for a form of initction, or maybe something else which could convey the sacred species reverently, this cant be a new problem, I am sure there is guidance somewhere.
If extremely small particles are not a problem for a celiac a miniscule portion of the Host could be used, possibly a fragment so small as to be almost invisible.
If extremely small particles are not a problem for a celiac a miniscule portion of the Host could be used, possibly a fragment so small as to be almost invisible.
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maryjk
Guest
It would vary.
For me, if I consumed an entire standard Host?
:stretcher:
Just gluten contamination from a grill had my husband debating if he should take me to the hospital for dehydration.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
It is actually an auto-immune disease, not an allergy, different antibody reactions. Symptoms do not necessarily line up with the amount of damage one is inflicting upon one’s small intestine, as I stated in my previous post. Just because any individual with celiac disease can “deal with the effect,” of consuming any amount of gluten, does not mean that there is flexibility in the diet. Anyone with celiac disease MUST aim for ZERO gluten. Of course that may be unachievable because of certain contact risks, but that is the aim. Or risk a high chance of intestinal cancer.
Receiving the regular host is NOT an option for those with celiac disease. Whether or not there are symptoms, the damage IS being done.
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