Preconceived notions

[ncjohn]

I’ve been quite down for a while now and have had a hard time to even bring myself to post in the spirituality part of the forum. I was having a hard time figuring out why, but came to a realization this morning as I was doing my daily readings. Today’s gospel reflects Jesus’s view on those of his time who complained about anything that didn’t match their particular expectations. Luke 7:31-35 usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke7.htm#v31

In reading the meditation from Word Among Us, I found these points http://www.wau.org/meditations/meditations.asp
9-19 Word Among Us:

The people of Jesus’ generation had their own preconceived ideas of what the Messiah was to be like, and Jesus didn’t fit their expectations. Locked into their own view of things, those who had the opportunity to know Jesus actually didn’t want to recognize him or welcome God’s action through him. They held onto their own judgments and their own standpoint, just as obstinate children do. And as a result, they missed out on receiving his touch.

How often we act the same way today! Perhaps we’ve already decided just how much God can ask of us and have closed our minds to anything more. Maybe we’ve allowed a good relationship to be ruined because we won’t give up a strongly held opinion of little importance. Perhaps we’re not giving our spouse a chance to prove he or she has changed because we won’t accept an apology. Maybe we’ve judged our pastor harshly because of one statement he made in a homily. How many opportunities have we missed to make a new friend because we didn’t like the way someone dressed?​

When we close ourselves off to people or dismiss them on the basis of our preconceptions, mistaken judgments, and prejudices, not only do we make them suffer, we suffer as well.

How often I have seen these things at this site. People all over each other over differences in preferences about liturgy. People making judgments about each other over questions about sin or illness. Even people making strong judgments about other people’s prayer styles if they don’t agree with theirs.

So many are using their preconceived notions to cast aside the Christ present in each of us. “You’re too liberal because you like contemporary music.” “You’re too conservative because you want to wear a veil.” “You are supporting the devil because you read Harry Potter.” “Your prayer isn’t “really” Catholic because my favorite saint didn’t do it that way.”

We seem to want to have Jesus dance to our tune, rather than listening for his music. He did make it clear in another gospel reading recently though that not everyone who comes to eat with him (sat in the pews or went to communion) or prophesies in his name (tells everyone else how they need to live while failiing to show mercy) will enter the Kingdom.

For if we aren’t willing to take the time to be with him and truly get to know him, we aren’t really following him or taking up our crosses. And that those who aren’t willing to take up their crosses aren’t fit to be called his disciples.

At times I fear we get so caught up in these preconceived notions that we forget that our job is to take up our crosses, and that what he desires is “mercy not sacrifice”.

For “they will know you are my disciples by the way you love one another.” And it is this lack of love for one another that has so discouraged me lately.

Peace,

 

[Della]

Preach it, brother!

 

[InLight247]

John, thanks for your posting.

You are so right about the preconceived notions.
I think the basic issue is the self centeredness. Human beings are all self-centered, some more, some less. We have this expectation based on our own likeness, our own belief and our own way of thinking. When others’ point of view or actions are different from ours, we could easily get defensive, disappointed, and even offensive.

That is why we need to constantly die to ourselves and live in Christ. It surely is a hard thing. Only with God’s grace we may strive for the virtues of understanding, tolerance,
forgiving and loving.

I used to be quick tempered, responding with intuitive without holding back and thinking twice. But with God’s grace, I have made tremendous progress. I still don’t trust myself, but I pray and trust in His mercy and grace. Yes, I also see some discussions and responses on CAF I consider lack of charity and jumping into conclusion too quick or too sensitive about their own egos. Those brothers and sisters need to mature themselves.
I pray, hope and believe they will do better and better.

CAF to me is a place to learn as well as to contribute. With an open mind and a humble heart, we can learn from each other. Personally, I did learn a lot from CAF. I once even went to confession for my intention of a post though nothing uncharitable at all on the surface. My goal is to alert myself not falling into the same temptation when see other’s uncharitable messages, not being defensive when others have different opinions, and accepting honest love suggestion with humility. It is not easy. I am trying. I hope all CAF members try. Then CAF will become a better spiritual place for all of us.

 

[blessedstar]

NCJohn your thread is a challenge to all of us, even to yourself, as all of us lack love. If we think we have loved enough that is a clear sign we have not.

I think what you want is for us to celebrate our diversity and I’d like to see that too.

I don’t think people are wrong for stating what is true and what is untrue, but I guess we could all work on our delivery of that.

However don’t lose hope, not in people nor Jesus.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Very well said, John! …as Della said “Preach it, brother!”…and good to catch up again with you in these Forums …
Very often the reason we attack someone who does not share our ‘sacred cows’ is because we are insecure in those beliefs (‘sacred cows’) and hence those who disagree become a threat to our shaky ground on which our sacred cows graze contentedly and unquestioningly.
There can be healthy disagreement without personal attack - to my mind there should never be personal attack and healthy disagreement is healthy! St. Augustine said “in essentials, unity and in non essentials, liberty”. And Pope Benedict has said “unity in diversity and diversity in unity”.

Some however misunderstand that we are only bound to essentials in The Church in Faith and Morals. I think it very healthy to keep in mind that at times The Church has been wrong in some things…hence where there is disagreement/our own questioning then research and intelligent prayerful reflection and questing (for the truth of matters) is asked - and respect for all without personal attack. Some feeling they have the truth weild it like a viscious stick to assault all unbelievers…and truth without Charity is only a half truth. That mentality that brought about the Crusades and The Inquisition still exists and is expressed in alternative ways.

Saint Isaac the Syrian ( 7th century), monk at Nineveh, near Mosul in modern Iraq
Ascetical discourses, 1st series, no.81

“Be merciful as your Father is merciful”
dailygospel.org/www/popup-comments.php?language=AM&id=1002
*

At what point does a man recognise that his heart has attained purity? When he looks on all men as good without a single one seeming impure or besmirched to him. Then, in truth, he is pure of heart (Mt 5,8)…

What is this purity? Briefly, it is compassion of heart towards the entire universe. .*

There is a book out here by one of our retired Australian bishops that is being decidedly frowned on by Rome - but His Grace has some very important things to say that are worth weighing up and considering. I’ll return and state the book details. I am yet to get it myself and will be ordering it today or tomorrow.*** (see end of this Post)

I have just finished reading a book (“La Popessa”) about Sr. Pascalina who was Pope Pius XII’s personal assistant…for me it was another real eye opener about the “corridors of power” and the humanity and conflicts, power struggles, in Rome. And not the first journalistic book I have read on the functioning etc. in Rome. This does not mean I am against ‘Rome’…but rather that I seek to look at it realistically.

I love The Church with a will as I am sure most on this Board do…but every night I pray a prayer for the cleansing of The Church and that She remain true to her call. In the Office of Readings last night, St. Augustine speaks of his appointment as Bishop and his fears of this honour and that his love of honour may override his duty as shepherd.

The Church is on a journey to perfection, as we as individuals are are on a journey to perfection also.
Catholic Catechism:
catholicculture.org/library/catechism/index.cfm?recnum=3272

“The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ. 631”

Over and above that…well said, John! You preach it, brother!

I also identified with what InLight had to say. These forums have been a learning and growth process for me and I commenced decidedly with a quick temper and convinced of my own righteousness and at times I slip back into those faults - although nowadays I do manage in the main not to reveal such openly in posts. I do recognize however, what is simmering behind my words. Hence CAF has been and is a journey for me.

Blessings and Peace…Barb

---

Holy Father’s (John Paul II) acceptance of Bishop Geoffrey Robinson’s retirement with short biography of His Grace:
sydney.catholic.org.au/News/MR/2004716_1721.shtml

The book in question:
“Confronting Power and Sex in the Catholic Church: Reclaiming the Spirit of Jesus”

Author : GEOFFREY ROBINSON (BISHOP)
Format : Paperback
ISBN : 1920721479
Publication Date (AUS) : August 2007
Imprint : JOHNG
$AU34.95

 

[twosweetgirls]

Amen, brother.

 

[blessedstar]

**
Pope John Paul II’s 1996 Message for
the World Day of Peace**

**"Certainly there are many factors which can help restore peace, while safeguarding the demands of justice and human dignity. But no process of peace can ever begin unless an attitude of sincere forgiveness takes root in human hearts. When such forgiveness is lacking, wounds continue to fester, fueling in the younger generation endless resentment, producing a desire for revenge and causing fresh destruction. Offering and accepting forgiveness is the essential condition for making the journey towards authentic and lasting peace…

A correct reading of history will make it easier to accept and appreciate the social, cultural and religious differences between individuals, groups and peoples. This is the first step towards reconciliation, since respect for differences is an inherently necessary condition for genuine relationships between individuals and between groups. The suppression of differences can result in apparent peace, but it creates a volatile situation which is in fact the prelude to fresh outbreaks of violence…

The sincere desire for peace has to be translated into a firm decision to remove every obstacle to achieving peace. Here the various religions can make an important contribution, as they have often done in the past, by speaking out against war and bravely facing the consequent risks. But are not all of us called to do still more, by drawing upon the genuine patrimony of our religious traditions?..

The liberating encounter with forgiveness, though fraught with difficulties, can be experienced even by wounded hearts, thanks to the healing power of love, which has its first source in God who is Love. . . . Divine love is the foundation of the reconciliation to which all of us are called. . . . In a certain sense every baptized person must consider himself a ‘minister of reconciliation’ since, having been reconciled with God and the brethren, he is called to build peace with the power of truth and justice."**

 

[CapaxDei]

As I learned when I was training as a business development coach, some people would rather be right than successful.

 

[blessedstar]

As I learned when I was training as a business development coach, some people would rather be right than successful.

I see what you are saying, but does that mean we should deny Divinely Revealed Truths? I don’t think it does.

I think we shouldn’t try to make square pegs fit into round holes. Everyone is unique and as such has a unique relationship with God, but error in faith and the practise of faith must be addressed. The Catholic Church has continually addressed error and heresay throughout the ages. The Truth must be upheld. But things such as whether you go to Latin Mass or the Vernacular, or whether you receive Holy Communion on the hand or tongue, or if you washed that morning and put on your best suit for Mass or not, etc really don’t matter nor show up on the richter scale of issues to address. We have some religious freedom within our faith precisely because people follow different spiritualities and are unqiuely following Jesus in their personality. This is clearly shown in the great number of Saints.

The errors in the Church will be addressed as they always are, but the Church moves slower than a snail turning around on itself and rightly so.(Snails cannot go backwards by the way, they have to turn around on themselves to change direction and it’s a slow process, I have spent time watching this event take place; interesting fact! )

Certainly our personal religious preferences don’t make anyone any better than anybody else. And we must always be willing to change as the Holy Spirit leads the Church into the future.

The Church isn’t about ME, it is about US. If you turn ME around on itself you get WE.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[happyseppy]

nc john,
I thought your post was very insightful, I have experienced something along those lines myself, namely a discouragement with my own lack of charity, and what that can lead to.

I do think the discussions on these boards are essentially healthy. To have an oppurtunity to have give and take on issues of our faith, and to have people all over the world weigh in, is a pretty amazing thing. I have been touched by the openness of many members in their pain, confusion, anger; and the caring of many others who jump at the chance to encourage, pray for and extend care. There are some threads that disintegrate into a mess, it’s true. But I think it is all part of the growth process for us as Catholic Christians.

One of the beautiful things about the Catholic Church, and one of the main reasons I converted, is that in her wisdom, the Church has trusted Our Lord’s love and power so much, that she opens her arms to all. We do not have to straighten ourselves out before we come to the Church. We just have to present ourselves to Christ in the Church, and then He will do His work. I was able to attend Mass without any questioning, pressure to “join”, no one attempted to delve into my private life, etc.,but the exposure to Christ in the Church did it’s work, and I went to RCIA. Even now, 5 years later, I am being continually converted, and know I will be until the day I die.

Our realization that we don’t “really” love is a painful one. I believe it is one of those growing pains, seeing our own sins in greater and greater clarity. It is both a call and a sign of growth. Try not to be discouraged, but to follow after Christ in His higher call. One step at a time! Embrace and unite this unique pain to His cross.

Peace,

Kelly

 

[blessedstar]

nc john,
I thought your post was very insightful, I have experienced something along those lines myself, namely a discouragement with my own lack of charity, and what that can lead to.

I do think the discussions on these boards are essentially healthy. To have an oppurtunity to have give and take on issues of our faith, and to have people all over the world weigh in, is a pretty amazing thing. I have been touched by the openness of many members in their pain, confusion, anger; and the caring of many others who jump at the chance to encourage, pray for and extend care. There are some threads that disintegrate into a mess, it’s true. But I think it is all part of the growth process for us as Catholic Christians.

One of the beautiful things about the Catholic Church, and one of the main reasons I converted, is that in her wisdom, the Church has trusted Our Lord’s love and power so much, that she opens her arms to all. We do not have to straighten ourselves out before we come to the Church. We just have to present ourselves to Christ in the Church, and then He will do His work. I was able to attend Mass without any questioning, pressure to “join”, no one attempted to delve into my private life, etc.,but the exposure to Christ in the Church did it’s work, and I went to RCIA. Even now, 5 years later, I am being continually converted, and know I will be until the day I die.

Our realization that we don’t “really” love is a painful one. I believe it is one of those growing pains, seeing our own sins in greater and greater clarity. It is both a call and a sign of growth. Try not to be discouraged, but to follow after Christ in His higher call. One step at a time! Embrace and unite this unique pain to His cross.

Peace,

Kelly

Beautiful!!! Truly beautiful.

 

[happyseppy]

Beautiful!!! Truly beautiful.

awww, thanks

 

[ncjohn]

Thank you all for your beautiful replies and ecouragement. There are some excellent points made here, and much to ponder.

As InLight noted, we all deal with self-centeredness at some level. Some better than others. Each individually better in some areas than others, and better on some days than others.

As I’ve mentioned to a couple, I think my discouragement has been somewhat similar to that experienced by the prophets of old, though I certainly woulnd’t proclaim myself a prophet. (I quite frankly can’t think of a less desirable job! ) In having experienced God’s mercy themselves, they could not help but want to share the joy of surrender to God with others and to call them away from those forms of self-centeredness that were pulling them away from God.

But truth be told, if one hasn’t experienced God in a personal way, it is hard for that person to even understand what is being spoken of. And most of us, until we’ve been laid low and humbled in some way, will consider anything we don’t understand to not really exist or be true. We will consider ourselves capable of understanding God and “knowing” His will, not only for us but for others. And armed with such knowledge comes the tendency to believe that His will is for us to beat that knowledge into others.

I still fail, both in deed and charity, on a daily basis. I have not anywhere near attained that purity of heart that Barb described in the quote

At what point does a man recognise that his heart has attained purity? When he looks on all men as good without a single one seeming impure or besmirched to him.

But I do know that I am called to that and that true joy will come from it. And I know that I am called to share that knowledge gently with those who have not been so blessed. At times I feel like Jeremiah, saying “Lord, I will speak your name no more.” But in the end, one cannot experience falling into the arms of God without wishing for others to know that joy. So I continue, like Jonah, to allow God to spit me up on the shores where I sometimes don’t really want to go, to try to bring His love to those who haven’t opened themselves to it yet.

I’ll close with a prayer of thanksgiving for all of you here who share that journey and that call. That we may continue even in the face of adversity to bring the joy of the Risen Lord to a needy world. And that we might come to say, with St. Robert Bellarmine:

This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Beautiful post - and an honest one I thought. It rather reminds me in places of “The Desiderata” - “speak your truth quietly”. One thing I love about honest posts is that it gives me permission to be honest and affirms any honesty I may share. It is also a very insightful post I thought and insight is often born of personal experience.

Much food for thought! Thanks John.

I’ll close with a prayer of thanksgiving for all of you here who share that journey and that call. That we may continue even in the face of adversity to bring the joy of the Risen Lord to a needy world. And that we might come to say, with St. Robert Bellarmine:
This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.

As St. Paul says…all ‘knowledge’ will pass, but Love will remain forever. And love is an extremely tall order and a lifetime’s work. Lord help us to fight the good fight and run the good race all our lives - even when we are pushing a very heavy barrel uphill.

Blessings, John, to you and yours, with Peace…Barb

 

[CapaxDei]

I see what you are saying, but does that mean we should deny Divinely Revealed Truths? I don’t think it does.

No, we shouldn’t. But you and I have, it seems, received the gift of faith. That means that, whatever our failings in the nitty-gritty of daily life (and, I don’t know about you, but mine are many – I’m in the confessional weekly, and I thank God that I have many from which to choose), we know the truth, because we believe in the One Who has revealed Himself to us.

Saint John the Evangelist wrote that "We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us.”

And our Holy Father has written that “**eing Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction.”

Alas, not everyone has had that encounter.

Why me, and not my brother?

Why me, and not my friends?

Why me, and not my mother, or my father?

Why me?

Well, He has spoken to me. So be it. He speaks to them, too, but for whatever reason they have not heard Him.

That’s what I mean. They cling to what they have. But they do not have Him.

So what do we do?

How do you explain that to someone?**

 

[CapaxDei]

Our realization that we don’t “really” love is a painful one.

Painful, but absolutely necessary. One consultant whose monthly newsletter I read likes to say, “I’m constantly surprised at how stupid I was two weeks ago.”

Well, I’m constantly amazed at how callous and cruel I was two hours ago. When does it end?

But that is what God call us to. Indeed, the true nature of man, our true meaning, is to be… capax dei, the capacity for God, the capacity for truth, goodness, and beauty… for love.

…this, from a curmudgeon who tries to love Our Lord.

 

[kitkatty]

John, thanks for your posting.

You are so right about the preconceived notions.
I think the basic issue is the self centeredness. Human beings are all self-centered, some more, some less. We have this expectation based on our own likeness, our own belief and our own way of thinking. When others’ point of view or actions are different from ours, we could easily get defensive, disappointed, and even offensive.

That is why we need to constantly die to ourselves and live in Christ. It surely is a hard thing. Only with God’s grace we may strive for the virtues of understanding, tolerance,
forgiving and loving.

I used to be quick tempered, responding with intuitive without holding back and thinking twice. But with God’s grace, I have made tremendous progress. I still don’t trust myself, but I pray and trust in His mercy and grace. Yes, I also see some discussions and responses on CAF I consider lack of charity and jumping into conclusion too quick or too sensitive about their own egos. Those brothers and sisters need to mature themselves.
I pray, hope and believe they will do better and better.

CAF to me is a place to learn as well as to contribute. With an open mind and a humble heart, we can learn from each other. Personally, I did learn a lot from CAF. I once even went to confession for my intention of a post though nothing uncharitable at all on the surface. My goal is to alert myself not falling into the same temptation when see other’s uncharitable messages, not being defensive when others have different opinions, and accepting honest love suggestion with humility. It is not easy. I am trying. I hope all CAF members try. Then CAF will become a better spiritual place for all of us.

A better spiritual place for us all, isnt that what CAF should really be all about? So we can lead one another to grow in spirituality? I guess its up to us to keep striving toward that goal by trying to respond in charity. Let us all work towards that. Thankfully many here already do

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Some really great responses precede my post.

It is a great mystery why some receive the Gift of Faith and The Grace to respond…and others not. But there was an extremely beautiful intercession in the intercessions at Evening Prayer tonight: “Bring all people into Your Kingdom, that the whole of mankind may be saved - Lord be with your people”.
Having received the Gift of Faith and The Grace to respond to that gift…it remains a great responsibility and accountability - an overhwelingly humble matter - as well as a cause to rejoice and be thankful praising God. God’s people are the whole of mankind.

Capax Dei:“Well, I’m constantly amazed at how callous and cruel I was two hours ago. When does it end?”

St. Francis of Assisi said that pride dies 10 minutes after we do…and in other words, the race, the good fight, will go on until death. I am so very often guilty of lack of love of my neighbour and very often thoughts well up that I have not willed. I was discussing this with my director and told him it would be so comforting to be able to blame the devil - rather I recognize that the work of perfecting love of neibour has much work needed yet - for these thoughts well up from somewhere deep inside me.

KitKatty: “A better spiritual place for us all, isnt that what CAF should really be all about? So we can lead one another to grow in spirituality? I guess its up to us to keep striving toward that goal by trying to respond in charity. Let us all work towards that. Thankfully many here already do”

Beautiful words - thank you for them…hence I will try very hard in future to make my contribution to CAF always a positive and encouraging one - while remaining a most fallible and faulted creature. Lord have Mercy and constantly remind me of my resolve.

I should never fear to speak what I hold to be truth. However I think truth is an aweful big word and requires thought…and in speaking up well I should recall that truth spoken without love remains a half truth. And love is an aweful big word too requiring thought. Truth and love, in truth, are a journey and span a lifetime until we are fully united with God in Heaven who IS Love and Truth. Lord, grant the gift of always making a good Confession and may this Sacrament be always more loved, with gratitude.

Blessings all and God’s Peace…Barb