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PRmerger
Guest
Do you have Scripture verses that tells you
- this is a question of mechanics
- that this doctrine is not necessary for salvation
- and that issues of mechanics can be dismissed?
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truid
Guest
Yes.
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2889&t=NKJV
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truid
Guest
Does Jesus give life (as in eternal life) to everyone (the world)? Or to a specific group of people (those who follow Him)?
John 6:33 says: "For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
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cooterhein
Guest
Truid, not sure if you saw my earlier post…it was at the very end of a page. Can you delete a couple of items in your Private Message folder to clear some space? I’m trying to send you something.
Let me know when you see this. Thanks!
Let me know when you see this. Thanks!
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truid
Guest
Done.
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jericho777
Guest
God’s primary attribute is Holiness.Rev 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.”
Love proceeds from His hoilness. He cannot tolerate sin. He has unconditional love (grace is unmerited favor it is unconditional) for those He has called based on Christs finished work on the cross.
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cooterhein
Guest
Sweet! Done and done.Done.
I think you get a 10 message quota when you’re on a trial membership, but it goes up to 50 when that expires. Goes up more after that, too.
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truid
Guest
How long is the trial membership?Sweet! Done and done.
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jericho777
Guest
1 God created all people but He is not the Father of all men. John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies
2 He does not have to show mercy He chooses to. Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
3 We all deserve God’s justice because we are all reprobate sinners. Becareful if you look for Gods justice.
4 God is first Holy. Love proceeds from His Holiness.
I like the parent analogy because those whom God is their Father are loved unconditionally and eternally because they ARE His children. But according to your analogy you have to earn and maintain your good standing with your father but if you sin your father will then torture you in hell forever. This sounds worse to me!
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cooterhein
Guest
First, I don’t think it’s a very good idea for you to attribute these kinds of things to God, no matter what your motivation.
Second, I’ve been around anti-Calvinist polemics long enough to recognize a familiar phrase when I see it. I know you didn’t come up with this string of adjectives yourself. You saw it on a website somewhere, you agreed with the general premise of anti-Calvinism, and you thought this phrase was worth taking with you. Can I suggest that you put it back where you found it.
Third, Calvinists do not ever come to these kinds of conclusions about God. You know that this is true, and it would be one thing if you were genuinely interested in finding out why that is. But it’s quite another thing to try and demonstrate that Calvinist beliefs are clearly absurd and Calvinists must be universally incapable of using extremely basic logic in order to see that this is true.
That is how you come across when you use that kind of phrase. This is the result. That’s what we see at this end. It’s not good. It does not help you or anyone else when you characterize the Calvinist God as schizophrenic, murderous, and psychotic, and it’s not in your best interest to do so. I’m not entirely sure why “schizophrenic” would be included in that list…not only do I not care, though, but I’m also pretty sure you don’t know, either. It’s not like you generated this phrase, and once again, I’m asking you to put it back where you found it. I don’t think it’s “you.” I think you’re better than that, and I think you have sufficient “charity points” to agree that it wasn’t the best move.
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jericho777
Guest
Is the problem you all have with predestination that God chooses men according to His purposes apart from who people are? Do you trust God to make the right choice?
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cooterhein
Guest
Not entirely sure. I think there’s a certain number of posts where you’ll generally make the switch (maybe 50)? but I don’t think it happens automatically. I’m pretty sure one of the mods has to see where you’re at and physically click something that changes you over. Just keep doing what you’re doing and wait for it; it’ll happen soon.
Oh, if you get infractions, though, that can knock you back and delay the process. Just a heads up, in general. You’re not allowed to talk about specific infractions in detail on a public thread, but let’s just say it’s not good to get infractions and they limit some of the things you can do. If you get any, just wait for them to expire and make sure you don’t get more of the same.
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Stay on topic please
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Cruxis117
Guest
Addressing your last point here, of what is bolded, scripture says otherwise:
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.”
It seems that God is the Father and creator of all, as he wants all to come to repentance, as stated. Furthermore, with these verses:
1 Timothy 4:16
“Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching, continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers”
Romans 2:6-8
“6 God “will repay everyone according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those** who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.” **
Colossians 1:21-23
“21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23** if you continue in your faith**, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant”.
It is evident that yes, we are to keep in the faith. While God’s grace is unmerited, we are to continue in this, and not falter, or in other words, “maintain your good standing with your father.”
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benedictus2
Guest
Well hellooo, how did these other people come into being?
Did some evil magician create them in a petrie dish? Or maybe someone waved a magic wand and pooooff f out they came.?
As I said you have a very weird understanding of the Bible and of God.
If God did not create all these people then therefore God is not supreme. There must be other Gods out there as well in which case your belief is not Christian but pagan.
And it is an assumption that is backed by Scripture.
That is one of the main givens of Christianity. That God is Supreme and there are no other Gods other than Him and He alone creates.
So what conclusion can we arrive at with this?
Calvinists are not Christians.
Well if He is not the one who created all then He is obviously not God.Nope. That argument ONLY works if both parties agree that God created ALL of the human race (each and every person). I don’t believe He did. What an evil and cruel God He must be to create an entire race of people, only to have the Israelites slaughter and basically wipe them off the face of the earth. Isn’t that called Genocide? Yeah, God loves a little genocide in the morning!
Sorry but your reasoning is extremely unbiblical and logically flawed.
Glad you see the idiocy of the Calvinistic tenet then because God DID CREATE EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING ON THIS PLANET.That’s right! That’s what you have if you believe God personally created each and every single human being ever born on this planet! Glad you see it my way!
Thank you for the information you provided. Now I know why Calvinists have a twisted idea about salvation.
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benedictus2
Guest
Well I am glad to see that you have are smarter than Truid.
God created all men. Nothing could be truer than that (unless of course you are an atheist).
Now Truid was smart enough to realize, that if God created all men, therefore the Calvinistic view of god is one who is a psychopath (creates people just so he can torture them). That is why the only way one can avoid that problem is if one posits that God did not create all men - which is what Truid claims.
So now, you have just confirmed the utter idiocy of the Calvinistic position.
They claim God is merciful, just and love but this same person creates people just so he can torture them for ever and ever.
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benedictus2
Guest
Hey, I am not the one attributing this to god. The Calvinists are the ones who came up with these attributes of God. But because they are incapable of coming up with a coherent theology, they are unable to see that that is exactly the kind of god they have.
That is why I keep saying Calvinism is an idiotic ism.
Nope, that was entirely my reasoning. I’ve been using that since I first tangled with another Calvinist when I joined CAF.
Back then I did not even know about predestination and did not know people actually believe such ludicrous theologies of salvation.
Exercise the grey cells and follow the premises and conclusions. Yes, I do come up with something quite original every now and again although maybe someone else thought the same too.
That is right because reason is in short supply.
**Truid realized that the problem exists. Now he obviously exercises the grey cells. But to get out of the obvious quandary, he solved it by saying that God did not create all men!
Now, for a so called Christian nothing could be more stupid than that.**
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PRmerger
Guest
All you have said, while true, is simply anthropomorphic language. Everything we say about God is a result of our “making” it so, in order for our finite mind to understand the Infinite. Thus, what you are saying about love–that man has made it into an emotion–can also be applied to hate.
And if you can apply the quality of love to God, why should hate be excluded?
Thus, do you believe God hates anyone?
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PRmerger
Guest
Me, too! Same experience! I spent 40 years of my life studying my faith, reading the Scriptures, discussing religion, and had never even considered that people could believe such an absurdity.
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PRmerger
Guest
jericho, ALL who died prior to the atoning death of Christ were in hades, the abode of the dead. There was no entrance into heaven yet.
Not to mention this is a parable, so I will acknowledge that in a parable Jesus talks about a rich man being in hell.
However, in reality, we cannot know with certainty what human being has been condemned to eternity there.
And the Scriptures mention no one.
You stated that Pharaoh, because he “pursued them to kill them” was condemned to hell (and really, it was God who made him do this and thus God, at his pleasure, sent Pharaoh to eternal torture after hardening his heart.)
Paul, also “pursued them to kill them”. Do you also believe, then, that Paul is in hell?
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