Predestination in Catholicism

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If you know with 100% certainty, and I do mean absolute 100% no error certainty, what I’ll do tomorrow, free will is an illusion. My life is written in stone, and that would mean God created humans knowing an absurdly large amount of them would end up in hell.

Hence, it seems Calvin was right, unless there’s no God, or the God that exists does not have the features assigned to him by Abrahamic religions
 
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Knowing what someone will do doesn’t necessarily mean exercising control over what that person does. It’s like how a parent will have hindsight that his kid’s gonna fool around while he’s away. Does that make the kid any less guilty? No.
 
There’s a couple of things there.

Parents are not omnipotent, they did not create their kids in their own image and likeness. They also don’t have the power to watch the kid every single second of his life even when they’re not in the same room and stop him from doing something that will send him to hell. God does. God is responsible for creating us with sin, I don’t care if it’s the result of some obscure “fall of man” in a non-existent garden, God knew what would happen, and he created us this way knowing full well what we’d do our whole lives. There’s no question that if God is all-knowing, he knows all this with perfect certainty. Where is the free will? Human parents are not comparable to God, they brought their children into the world, but they don’t ask for the kids they have, they’re given their kids with all their virtues and vices, it’s not a decision made by the parents, that’s not the case with God.

So how is free will real and not an illusion we have due to our lack of knowledge about the future?

Once you discard that free will is possible with an all-knowing God, the conclusion reveals itself: there’s either a God who creates humans to make them endure eternal punishment, or a God that cannot stop that from happening, there’s a God but he’s nothing like what Christians say he is, or there is no God

Calvin affirmed one of those things, and therefore appears to have a higher probability of being right about God, provided certain assumptions about his character are met
 
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Jkuehn said:
What is middle knowledge? The idea that humans can only access a certain amount of knowledge?
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Middle knowledge is a Molinist concept that God knows the possible outcome of all things whether they will happen or not. It’s “middle” because it lies “between” God’s natural knowledge (God knows all things by virtue of their nature, e.g. it’s a fact, i.e. a circle is always a set of points x around a radius r uch that x=2rpi), and his free knowledge (He knows I exist, be that’s only because he freely created me). His “middle” knowledge would consist of his knowing how I would respond if he decided to make it rain, snow, or shine today.
 
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Curious11 said:
There’s a couple of things there.

Parents are not omnipotent, they did not create their kids in their own image and likeness. They also don’t have the power to watch the kid every single second of his life even when they’re not in the same room and stop him from doing something that will send him to hell. God does. God is responsible for creating us with sin, I don’t care if it’s the result of some obscure “fall of man” in a non-existent garden, God knew what would happen, and he created us this way knowing full well what we’d do our whole lives. There’s no question that if God is all-knowing, he knows all this with perfect certainty. Where is the free will? Human parents are not comparable to God, they brought their children into the world, but they don’t ask for the kids they have, they’re given their kids with all their virtues and vices, it’s not a decision made by the parents, that’s not the case with God.

So how is free will real and not an illusion we have due to our lack of knowledge about the future?

Once you discard that free will is possible with an all-knowing God, the conclusion reveals itself: there’s either a God who creates humans to make them endure eternal punishment, or a God that cannot stop that from happening, there’s a God but he’s nothing like what Christians say he is, or there is no God

Calvin affirmed one of those things, and therefore appears to have a higher probability of being right about God, provided certain assumptions about his character are met
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God is omnipotent but He chooses to exercise His power in a way that doesn’t impose on man’s free will.
 
Curious11 said:
How do you reconcile an all-knowing God with free will? He knows exactly what’s gonna happen to each person, and therefore knew who would end up in heaven and who in hell, and so willingly created humans knowing full well how many would go to hell.

If there’s a God, which I sincerely doubt, it seems Calvin was closer to getting it right about him than most other religions
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God bless you Curious11 and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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God is the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, NOTHING happen in the Universe without His permission.
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God has given us absolute free will to love, but every other area our will is NOT absolute, it is limited, we are free to do everything what God permits us to do, furthermore for us to able to act, first He must provide us the operating power to act.

This is not the end of the matter. Our free choices which God has permitted us to do and we receive the powers of operation from Him which enables us to act, preordained from all eternity in accordance with His all-embracing purpose.
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Eph.1:10-11;
In the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence gives us further explanation.
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Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).
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It is grace of Christ that delivers us (Rom.7:25); and makes us co-heirs with Him (Rom.8:17).
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This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
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It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
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It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).
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All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i, v, vi, xv, xvi;).
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His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
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Continue
 
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Continuation
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That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.
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The universe is a system of real beings created by God and directed by Him to this supreme end, the concurrence of God being necessary for all natural operations, whether of things animate or inanimate, and still more so for operations of the supernatural order.
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God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.
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Thus things happen contingently as well as of necessity (I, Q. xxii, a. 4), for God has given to different things different ways of acting, and His concurrence is given accordingly (I, Q. xxii, a. 4).
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Yet all things, whether due to necessary causes or to the free choice of man, are foreseen by God and preordained in accordance with His all-embracing purpose.
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Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, and without violence: universal, because all things are subject to it (I, Q. xxii, a. 2; ciii, a. 5); immediate, in that though God acts through secondary causes, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6); efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);
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(Concurrence = Agreement or union in action: COOPERATION) – In the brackets is addition.

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In spite of sin, which is due to the willful perversion of human liberty, acting with the concurrence, but contrary to the purpose and intention of God and in spite of evil which is the consequence of sin, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
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Sin is not ordained by the will of God, though it happens with His permission.
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Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;
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Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; “Serm.”
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Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”,

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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If you have any question Curious11 please ask.
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God bless you Curious11 and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin
 
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