Predestination - NOT A OSAS THREAD

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heisenburg

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I am a bit confused and am looking for a little clarification…

My Understanding of Calvin’s ‘Predestination’ is that if someone goes to heaven, it is because they were predestined before they were born. Nothing they can do within their life will change it. Further more, only those predestined will go to heaven.

But then I hear of people talking about double predestination and I get a little confused…

How is it possible to have people predestined to heaven and not have people predestined to hell. Aren’t the predestination and double predestination the same thing?

Logic.- Single predestination
  1. there are 3 people. Of these 3 people 1 is predestined by god to go to heaven, but does not explicitly say who goes to hell
  2. If god predestined explicitly for the 1 to go, did he not also indirectly predestine 2 and 3 to go hell?
Logic - Double Predestination
  1. 3 people, 1 goes to heaven because god predestined.explicitly
  2. the other two go to hell also because god predestined it explicitly
Since the end result is exactly the same, how can someone tlk about single predestination without also meaning that god predestines people to hell?

Just looking for clarification

In Christ
 
heisenburg said:
How is it possible to have people predestined to heaven and not have people predestined to hell. Aren’t the predestination and double predestination the same thing?
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No.

Predestination is only for the elect. No where in the Bible does it have anything to do with the vessels of wrath.

Any discussion about predestination needs to begin with what the word means.

From the Greek word Pro’orizo. Pro’orizo means to prebound or predetermine boundary lines in advance. Pro’orizo is a construction of the prefix pro (our prefix “pre”, meaning before) and the Greek word ‘Orizo – to bound or to mark out a boundary, to appoint, decree, specify, declare, determine, limit, ordain

The small mark ‘ before the word ‘Orizo is called a diacritical mark. It has an “h” sound. The word ‘orizo is written “Horizo” and pronounced, “Horidzo”( the “z” is pronounced “dz” in the Greek). This word looks similar to our word “Horizon”. That is because it is exactly our word horizon. The horizon was a very familiar boundary line to Jewish mind. It was the division or the boundary of light (day) and darkness (night). Jesus said, “Ye are the light of the world.” (Matt. 5:14). Light is equated with Truth throughout scripture. Paul said, “Ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord, walk as children of light. – have no fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness” (Eph. 5:8,11). Again, Paul said, “Be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers – what communion hath light with darkness?” (II Cor. 6:14). Unbelievers are equated as living in darkness, therefore believers are equated with light – light is always equivalent to Truth. We are commanded to walk in the light.

The Elect have been predetermined for the boundary of truth, or light. God has pre-truthed his family to walk righteously and conform to Christ’s image (eikon – representation). God has pre-horizoned his family before the foundation of the world. God has conceived and birthed his family by his own will.
 
Thanks Tab…

However, I’d like a little clarification if you may…

In predestination theology, Is it possible for someone who is not elect to enter into heaven?

In Christ
 
Thanks Sand…

It is a lengthy document and will take some time to root through, however, in the interest of keeping the thread alive, in a quick yes or no… (not baiting) … Can someone that is not predestined to become an elect go to heaven…

This is honostly where my confusion lies and can be actually be rested with a simple yes…

If it no, I have some follow up, but it will at least get me started on ensuring I properly understand the theology

In Christ
 
heisenburg said:
Thanks Sand…

It is a lengthy document and will take some time to root through, however, in the interest of keeping the thread alive, in a quick yes or no… (not baiting) … Can someone that is not predestined to become an elect go to heaven…

This is honostly where my confusion lies and can be actually be rested with a simple yes…

If it no, I have some follow up, but it will at least get me started on ensuring I properly understand the theology

In Christ
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No.
 
And there in lies my confusion…

IN a quick read of the document provided, it does seem to condemn the idea the God would predestine someone to hell…

OK… fair enough,

But, since there is only two places to go to after this life, Heaven or Hell, by God predestining SOME to heaven, he implicitly predestines others to hell…

If God did NOT choose me to be predestined as an elect, he in effect chose me to go to hell.

He may not explicitly declare it in single predestination, but it is still the result…

Am I missing something?

In Christ
 
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heisenburg:
And there in lies my confusion…

IN a quick read of the document provided, it does seem to condemn the idea the God would predestine someone to hell…

OK… fair enough,

But, since there is only two places to go to after this life, Heaven or Hell, by God predestining SOME to heaven, he implicitly predestines others to hell…

If God did NOT choose me to be predestined as an elect, he in effect chose me to go to hell.

He may not explicitly declare it in single predestination, but it is still the result…
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True.
hiesenburg:
Am I missing something?
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I don’t think the problem lies in missing anything; as I see it, the problem lies in understanding who God is, and that, as God, He has a right to do whatever He chooses to do, and He is always right in whatever He chooses to do (Gen 18:25, a rhetorical question that expects a “yes” answer), and no one can dispute His right to do whatever He chooses to do. (Ps 115:3; Dan 4:35).

God is not obligated to save anyone; that He does is the wonder, and that He does is merciful, and He unabashedly declares that He will extend that mercy to whomever He will, and likewise, He will withhold it from whomever He will (Rom 9:18); that’s His right.

The same difficulty attributed to Calvinism arises in a system that teaches that God gives all men prevenient grace, thereby making man’s free will determinative in salvation, positively, or negatively; God could intervene by giving more grace thereby influencing one’s will away from his sin, as He did with Abimelech and Paul (Gen 20; Acts 8), and to final salvation, but He doesn’t—He let’s them choose, by their own free will to fall away.

The free-will system has the same difficulty, but doesn’t recognize it, IMO.
 
heisenburg said:
And there in lies my confusion…

IN a quick read of the document provided, it does seem to condemn the idea the God would predestine someone to hell…

OK… fair enough,

But, since there is only two places to go to after this life, Heaven or Hell, by God predestining SOME to heaven, he implicitly predestines others to hell…

If God did NOT choose me to be predestined as an elect, he in effect chose me to go to hell.

He may not explicitly declare it in single predestination, but it is still the result…

Am I missing something?

In Christ
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The “predestined to hell” which is condemned means either that God damns someone who does not actually deserve it (ie they are not personally guilty) or that God caused the person to sin and deserve damnation. That is what is condemned.

Letting a person fall into sin, and not saving them is not “predestination to hell” (as described above), but rather called “reprobation”.

What you are saying is correct, but what you are not taking into account is motive. So called “single Predestination” states God doesnt have to save someone who falls into sin and deserves punishment, so called “double predestination” (aka predestination to hell) states God sends the person to hell apart from whether they deserve it and/or that God causes the individual to sin so that He can “justly” turn around and damn them.
 
Understand…

(see… threads can be easy and helpful 😉 )

Thanks Sand…
Thanks CD

In Christ to each of you
 
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