Predestination questions

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If God can be surprised by human beings, then can He actually be God? Does anybody know the official Catholic position in regards to God being surprised by human beings?
Ok I believe God knows everything. He knows whether or not we will go to heaven or hell. BUT he wants everyone to go to HEAVEN. It is your free-will and choice, that remove you from faith and grace which would bring you to heaven. That said- knowing the God has “chosen” you for hell is wrong. Because it is NOT his choice, it is yours- you are the one who did certain things that caused you to go there. So yes, in some sense he knew you were going to hell before you were born, but was that originally what he wanted from you? OF COURSE NOT!
 
Ok I believe God knows everything. He knows whether or not we will go to heaven or hell. BUT he wants everyone to go to HEAVEN. It is your free-will and choice, that remove you from faith and grace which would bring you to heaven. That said- knowing the God has “chosen” you for hell is wrong. Because it is NOT his choice, it is yours- you are the one who did certain things that caused you to go there. So yes, in some sense he knew you were going to hell before you were born, but was that originally what he wanted from you? OF COURSE NOT!
I think we are all commanded to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also believe we are free to choose what we ultimately desire. Could you please share why we were able to choose Jesus Christ for eternal life, and why our friends and neighbors refuse to come the Jesus Christ for eternal life?
 
Due to my father’s loss of his Catholic faith, he had me baptised Presbyterian. So when I did become a Christian, that was where I first went. Fortunately my first and most outstanding pastor was an ex-Methodist, so he didn’t believe in the hardline “election” doctrine of the Presbyterians. He felt their doctrine led to spiritual arrogance, which I would have to agree with, based on certain personal experiences.

So I missed out on the hardline stuff.

Yes, basically they believe God picks and chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, even before they’re born.

Having said that, I had the peculiar experience of my father appearing in my room the night he died. One thing that I’ve struggled with was his statement at one stage during the proceedings, “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” I argued back, saying that couldn’t be right.

He replied, “Oh, it’s right all right. You can see that from here!” Later however in the same exchange, he admitted, “I was WILLING!” In other words, the behaviour that condemned him was his own choice.

I don’t understand it. But as the other poster here stated, the Catholic Church’s position is that free will is involved, and it is. It was my father’s decision to abandon his Catholic faith, to treat his own family like a real little tyrant, etc. In what sense he was predestined to do so, I don’t know.

I mean when it’s all said and done, heaven and hell, the human race etc. are all the result of God’s overall sovereignty. Therefore He would have some (name removed by moderator)ut into the proceedings. Free will on our part in fact almost implies a sort of abdication on His part. The fact that evil gets its own way so often in this world indicates God has withdrawn His power to “force” our wills to a very large extent.

If we were completely predestined, one would wonder what God and the devil were fighting for, if the outcome were completely known beforehand by both parties.
olrl.org/doctrine/cry.shtml
 
To be honest with you, the whole exchange seems rather wordy and overdone for a revelation. For example, when Gabriel turned up to tell Mary that God had chosen her for a certain role, the single most important declaration in human history, all he said was a couple of paragraphs, and even then there were questions by Mary interspersed in between.

Yet here we have supposedly quoted verbatim an entire speech. Either the girl was writing down every word as it was said, or she had a phenomenal memory for speeches.

I suppose this sounds a bit hypocritical coming from me, when I claim my own father had appeared to me the night he died. But our conversation was a series of questions and answers, usually brief and to the point. Nor can I remember all of it, since it was 30 years ago.

The quotation in the link above is a monologue also. There is not one question from the friend to whom the apparition was supposed to have appeared. Either the lady in Hell was naturally talkative, or her friend didn’t so much as bat an eyelid when the appeal was made from her tormented companion in Hell.

That said, the sentiments expressed might be true. But I’m a bit sceptical about the verbosity. I’ve had other experiences also eg. a voice cutting twice across my thoughts -

“Bob, what’s WRONG with being a writer?!”

“Bob, is (lady’s name) suited to you?!”

And in my psychiatrist’s experience, just three words,

“Go to Maclean!”

I’m afraid I have the same suspicion about some other alleged records. Of course I might be judging everything through the filter of my own experience, but my experience has been that God goes straight to the point. Even demonic messages have been direct eg. “I’ve been given permission to wreck your career!”

For example, when God spoke to a reluctant Moses, “Now go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you are to speak.”
 
For God to be surprised by humans I believe you would have to take a view of Open Theism which is definitely not biblical. God knows all choices humans will make before they make them, so the fact that God let a person exist that ultimately would not make it to heaven could be otherwise known as predestination to hell. Whether you embrace it or not, God is sovereign and works everything according to His good pleasure. The elect who are His chosen ones, knows God and His perfection of all in all, therefore trusting in His choosing and His sovereignty. Let us not be the clay that speaks back to the potter, but rejoice in His sovereignty and knowing all things work to the good to those that love Him!

I know if it weren’t for His grace and mercy in my life I couldn’t love God! Therefore all of my ability to believe in God is attributed to God’s work in my life in such a powerful way that I could NOT turn it down… thanks be to God!
 
God cannot be surprised at anything. If He was He wouldn’t be God. I am thankful that God chose me and I responded. I too am thankful for Gods saving grace to me. Hey my life ain’t perfect but Gods love to me is!
 
God cannot be surprised at anything. If He was He wouldn’t be God. I am thankful that God chose me and I responded. I too am thankful for Gods saving grace to me. Hey my life ain’t perfect but Gods love to me is!
Thanks for your continual testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ. God’s grace and mercy shown to sinners is just out of this world. I think your belief that God cannot be surprised at anything is the biblical truth and the official Catholic position too! I believe God knows what we are going to post before we even post it. The doctrine of predestination is a biblical truth which is also taught in the Catholic Church too.
 
I think we are all commanded to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also believe we are free to choose what we ultimately desire. Could you please share why we were able to choose Jesus Christ for eternal life, and why our friends and neighbors refuse to come the Jesus Christ for eternal life?
Whether you want that to be called predestination or not, you have chosen Christ yes, but you could still go to hell. I think God wants everyone in heaven- but did not just chose specific people to go to heaven or hell. Some people we know may not be on the right path right now, but later in life will confess that Jesus is our Savior, and will go to heaven. Yes, this said person was predestined to heaven (because God knew he would go), but for many years no one thought he was going there. God is great and loving and wants everyone to go to heaven. I dont think he wants to run around saying all the people who are going to hell. Doesnt seem like the loving God I know!
 
To be honest with you, the whole exchange seems rather wordy and overdone for a revelation. For example, when Gabriel turned up to tell Mary that God had chosen her for a certain role, the single most important declaration in human history, all he said was a couple of paragraphs, and even then there were questions by Mary interspersed in between.

Yet here we have supposedly quoted verbatim an entire speech. Either the girl was writing down every word as it was said, or she had a phenomenal memory for speeches.

I suppose this sounds a bit hypocritical coming from me, when I claim my own father had appeared to me the night he died. But our conversation was a series of questions and answers, usually brief and to the point. Nor can I remember all of it, since it was 30 years ago.

The quotation in the link above is a monologue also. There is not one question from the friend to whom the apparition was supposed to have appeared. Either the lady in Hell was naturally talkative, or her friend didn’t so much as bat an eyelid when the appeal was made from her tormented companion in Hell.

That said, the sentiments expressed might be true. But I’m a bit sceptical about the verbosity. I’ve had other experiences also eg. a voice cutting twice across my thoughts -

“Bob, what’s WRONG with being a writer?!”

“Bob, is (lady’s name) suited to you?!”

And in my psychiatrist’s experience, just three words,

“Go to Maclean!”

I’m afraid I have the same suspicion about some other alleged records. Of course I might be judging everything through the filter of my own experience, but my experience has been that God goes straight to the point. Even demonic messages have been direct eg. “I’ve been given permission to wreck your career!”

For example, when God spoke to a reluctant Moses, “Now go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you are to speak.”
jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION6.htm#CHAPTER%20LIX
 
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