Predestination . .

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what is the Catholic teaching on this?

Thanks and God bless,
ZP
 
If anyone has the exact text from the CCC, here are the article numbers

Predestination, 257, 600, 1007, 2012, 2782, 2823
 
ziapueblo said:
what is the Catholic teaching on this?

Thanks and God bless,
ZP
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It is De Fide. It must be believed. However, no one theory is dogma. I personally think Aquinas and Augustine (and St. Paul) have the better understanding than Molina.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong . . .

God gives us grace and it is up to us if we respond to it. Our years on earth are numbered so “we have only a limited time in which to bring our lives to fulfillment” (CCC 1007). God knows who and who is not going to willingly and freely accept His grace, but He gives everyone the same opportunity to answer to the grace given.

I’m sure that there is a whole lot more to it, but how does the above statement look?

Thanks,
ZP
 
I do not know what the specific Church teaching is on this, but it is one of those subjects I place on my HITS list (Hole In The Sand).
The reason for this is that, like the story from St Augustine about understanding the Trinity, there are a number of subjects that are argued about among Christians that have no real bearing on our day to day salvic journey and only serve to ensnare us in futile debates overs details, or things knowable only to God.
While I admit that these kinds of discussions can be interesting, they really are as useful in the real world as “How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?”

Peace
James
 
ziapueblo said:
Please correct me if I am wrong . . .

God gives us grace and it is up to us if we respond to it. Our years on earth are numbered so “we have only a limited time in which to bring our lives to fulfillment” (CCC 1007). God knows who and who is not going to willingly and freely accept His grace, but He gives everyone the same opportunity to answer to the grace given.

I’m sure that there is a whole lot more to it, but how does the above statement look?

Thanks,
ZP
Click to expand...
Foreknowledge and Predestination are not the same thing. God foreknows everything. Predestination is about His actively pre-determining not simply pre-knowing. That is why, ala Aquinas, Christ’s death is sufficient for all, but only efficient for the elect. That is God actively caused those who will be eternally saved to persevere to the end. It is a mystery wrapped in God’s divine will and plan. But whoever is finally saved was predetermined to that end by God. He uses primary and secondary causes to achieve that end. He alone is Sovereign and yet we still have free will. But not completely free - we cannot even have faith unless God grants us that gift. We can then excercise that will once faith is given. But we can not cause faith by an act of the will. So we see the mystery and co-operation that we can excercise with God.

This is the basic view of Augustinians and Thomists. Once the majority of Catholics. Most ar enow Molinists (God chooses based on foreknowledge). I personally think that position is illogical and relies to heavily on trying to solve a paradox that we cannot fathom.

Think about it this way, God chooses where and when we will be born, what family we will have, whether we will be born into a Christian family and be baptized or not… so it seems pretty obvious that he determines a great deal about our lives and our will is limited to the context He puts us in. He does not choose any of these things based on foreknowledge, but on His own good pleasure. So it stands to reason that He also pre-ordains and directs the means to the ultimate salvation of the Saints, only using their “free” will as a means to that end.

All of us who were baptized as babies had no say in it. But God graciously predestined us to receive this grace, it was not random or an act of our will, but God’s design.
 
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