predestination?

[likuske]

Wasn’t sure where to post this question. What is predestination and is it a protestant or catholic belief?

 

[Ferds_Guiang]

Here’s a short resource that might help:

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

 

[Zacdecat]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

run away,run away…it will do your head in…do you presume to know the mind of God?

 

[JRKH]

Wasn’t sure where to post this question. What is predestination and is it a protestant or catholic belief?

The very shortest answer, as I understand it, is that God has “Pre-destined” certain souls for heaven (the elect) and other souls for hell. That there is really nothing anyone can do to change where they are going to end up.

As the poster right above me just said - trying to get you mind around this in discussion will give you a headache.
Both Catholic AND protestants teach some from of Predestination but here is the essential fact to remember about it. (at least in my mind)

There is NO WAY for us, here on earth, to know who is destined for heaven or hell. Therefore, predestination has no practical value in our lives or our ministries to others. It is nothing more than an intellectual excersize. As an example of what I mean:

Two people who believe in “Once Saved Always Saved” say that they “Know they are going to heaven”. Later, one of these people “looses their faith”. He renounces God, the Bible, the Church and goes off on a debauchery binge and is killed in a car wreck. When the other OSAS person is confronted with this fact, the resonse is likely to be, “Well he wasn’t truly saved. Those who are truly saved cannot fall away”.

So the next question to the OSAS’er (and one they really cannot answer) is how do you know who is who until after death and judgement??

See what I mean?? Where someone is ultimately going to end up is certainly known to God, but we cannot know it here in this life. All we can do is to do our level best to be good Christians and try to draw others to Christ through us.

I hope this helps

Peace
James

 

[thistle]

The Church officially teaches that nobody is predestined to go to Hell.

CCC 1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance

 

[likuske]

The Church officially teaches that nobody is predestined to go to Hell.

CCC 1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance

Thanks for the posts!

 

[Will_B]

Help…

I have trouble with this term… We were discussing predestination last night…

1. God knows all. He knows all that is past, present and future.
2. Problem… If God predestined each individual why bother? We are all actors on a stage acting out our parts according to the script written by God…
3. To enhance the problem: Our instructor said God has given us “Free Will” yet he knows what we are going to do…
4. It seems like a chess game where one has the ability to know the moves of his opponent prior to the start of the game…
5. Lets say baby boy and baby girl are born today… 18 years from today this boy and girl get together, sin and conceive a baby… The 18 year old girl gets an abortion… According to predestination God knew this would happen… If either the boy or girl would choose not to sin, then God would have been surprised?

Maybe predestination means someting different that what it sounds like.
Please fill me in.

 

[JRKH]

Help…

I have trouble with this term… We were discussing predestination last night…

1. God knows all. He knows all that is past, present and future.
2. Problem… If God predestined each individual why bother? We are all actors on a stage acting out our parts according to the script written by God…
3. To enhance the problem: Our instructor said God has given us “Free Will” yet he knows what we are going to do…
4. It seems like a chess game where one has the ability to know the moves of his opponent prior to the start of the game…
5. Lets say baby boy and baby girl are born today… 18 years from today this boy and girl get together, sin and conceive a baby… The 18 year old girl gets an abortion… According to predestination God knew this would happen… If either the boy or girl would choose not to sin, then God would have been surprised?

Maybe predestination means someting different that what it sounds like.
Please fill me in.

Which is why I don’t bother myself with such things. We have enough to do just trying to live good lives and do the Will of God.

Peace
James

 

[thistle]

Help…

I have trouble with this term… We were discussing predestination last night…

1. God knows all. He knows all that is past, present and future.
2. Problem… If God predestined each individual why bother? We are all actors on a stage acting out our parts according to the script written by God…
3. To enhance the problem: Our instructor said God has given us “Free Will” yet he knows what we are going to do…
4. It seems like a chess game where one has the ability to know the moves of his opponent prior to the start of the game…
5. Lets say baby boy and baby girl are born today… 18 years from today this boy and girl get together, sin and conceive a baby… The 18 year old girl gets an abortion… According to predestination God knew this would happen… If either the boy or girl would choose not to sin, then God would have been surprised?

Maybe predestination means someting different that what it sounds like.
Please fill me in.

You seem to be confusing predestination and foreknowledge which are different. The fact that God knows what happens to all of us (foreknowledge) does not mean he predestined us to that end.

 

[Will_B]

You seem to be confusing predestination and foreknowledge which are different. The fact that God knows what happens to all of us (foreknowledge) does not mean he predestined us to that end.

OK – If God knows the out come of all events in the future, then we have no control over our lives… We can not change the future, because God knows what the future is.

Like I said in my previous post… If you sit down to play chess and your opponent knows all your moves before the game, then why play the game.

Why would God put man on earth, with Free Will, if He knew the outcome of all events…

Going back in History…

1. He knew Adam and Eve would not obey.
2. He knew that Mary would say yes.
3. He knew that Hitler would hate the Jews and send thousands upon thousands to the gas chamber.
4. He knew that JFK would be assinated in 1963…

According to predestination or foreknowledge… God knew all these events would take place before the creation of earth. It’s like He wrote the script and we are but actors on a stage acting out his novel.