I understand my view is skewed and emotional, but we were taught that God literally and eternally hated us with a deep deep passion. Then one day we changed, “born again” and then God loved us, while still deeply hating, being offended at, cant stand, grieved that He created the rest of the Non Elect world. This deep hatred included all people, babies, sick, disabled, non-Americans and so on. We were walking corpses, spiritually rebellious enemies of God. I know there are explanations for this and apologetics that give reasons for Reprobate and non-Reprobate folks. Being often on the reprobated side, because “there is some scum so low that even God’s grace cannot reach” that person. I think what really is frustrating is the utter futility of living this often breeds in people.
Read this small section from the Summa Theologica and tell me what you think. Granted, it doesn’t perfectly address your point, but it does talk some of the importance of secondary causes (us) even when the primary cause (God) is set in it’s action.
It proves Sola Scriptura defunct?:clapping:
Good Day, Ralphinal
Good Day, MalachiPredestination is itself illogical.:whacky: If it is true why are we here at all? This whole life thing is a waste of time? Suicide would get us to the Celestial kingdom or heaven or wherever quickly? Do whatever feels good as you are already saved or not? Ignore major parts of the Bible?
Calvin and his T.U.L.I.P. formula have helped lead many ignorant of Scripture astray from the truth. We are here today because God gave us ‘free will’.:yup:
Then how would you explain John 3:16?
Jimmy Akin devotes a whole chapter to TULIP in his book, The Salvation Controversy . Here is a link to it: cin.org/users/james/files/tulip.htm . He does a great job of comparing and contrasting Calvinism to what Catholics believe.
Good Day, Ralphina
Peace to u,
I understand what you are saying but no one should be acting morally or doing good for the sole purpose of going to heaven, else you make the same mistake as Cain. You are doing the right things for the wrong reason, and we know that God did not accept Cain’s offering.
That is how I feel about the issue. I’ve done some research, and a new twist on it is that if you are one of the elect, you will not sin!!! Boy howdy, there you go! Anyway, predestination as a doctrine that teaches that God created some people to go to hell is problematic with scripture. The idea that since God knows where we are headed is another issue, and not the one that I am asking about.
Good Day,
God uses means. Evangelism, prayer, sacraments etc. You are confusing fatalism with God’s sovereignty.
TULIP was not formulated by Calvin. It came long after his death and was meant to be a response to the charges of the Arminians, not a summary of Calvins beliefs.Predestination is itself illogical.:whacky: If it is true why are we here at all? This whole life thing is a waste of time? Suicide would get us to the Celestial kingdom or heaven or wherever quickly? Do whatever feels good as you are already saved or not? Ignore major parts of the Bible?
Calvin and his T.U.L.I.P. formula have helped lead many ignorant of Scripture astray from the truth. We are here today because God gave us ‘free will’.:yup:
Calvinism does not teach that one cannot backslide. It does teach that the elect cannot fall completely from Grace and never be restored. The perseverence of th saints means just that, one who is truly elect will persevere to the end. Not that one will never sin again. Calvin never taught anything like that.