Predetermination and prayer

[Lucius_Marius]

Greetings brothers and sisters,

I’m steadily making my way through Theology for Beginners, and many difficult questions arise in my mind as a result. Maybe you can help me with them.

God’s will is eternal and unchanging, because He is unchanging.

What is the point of prayer, then, if God’s will is already being done? If I ask for something that is not a part of God’s will then it will not be granted, as that would imply change of will, which, being eternal, cannot happen.

If on the other hand, I ask for that which is already God’s will, is it not superflous? It would have happened anyway.

A prayer cannot change God’s mind, or change anything, as He already made a decision (by the process of Being - not saying that there was a moment when we did not, and then did make it, as that would again point to change).

I have to say that this concept of eternal and unchanging Being is creating many difficult implications for me, not being used at all to think in such terms…

I do believe that God indeed responds to our prayers, and He did respond to mine many times, but I find it hard to reconcile it intellectually with this idea of eternal and unchanging will.

 

[FrStevenJones]

God’s ‘conditional will’ means that he will do certain things only if you ask for them in prayer. The prayer doesn’t change his mind, it fulfills his pre-determined conditions. So his plan remains unchanged, he was always planning to only do those things, in his plan, when we asked for them!

• Fr Jones

 

[Aphraxus]

I’m not sure if this is related, but I did ask a similar question some time ago about God’s Will and man’s free will. From what I understand, not everything that happens or is going to happen in life is actually God’s Will.

For instance, it is not God’s will that we sin, we sin by our own volition. So by that, not everything that happens in life is God’s will. God may will something for us, but whether that actually happens involves us cooperating with God’s plan for us.

He may want something for us, but if we choose to reject His plan for us, as we can by our own free will, it won’t happen.

It helps if you realize that just because God knows what will happen, it doesn’t necessarily mean that He wants it to happen. Which doesn’t actually take anything away from His omnipotence, if you think logically.

Not sure if that’s directly related but I hope it helps. Cheers.

 

[Nimzovik]

Such questions will not be answered here in this life.

 

[hicetnunc]

I do believe that God indeed responds to our prayers, and He did respond to mine many times, but I find it hard to reconcile it intellectually with this idea of eternal and unchanging will.

Maybe what St Thomas says will help. He responds to this very question in the Summa Theologiae (1a, q.23, a.8) in response to the objection that, since nothing temporal (such as prayer) can precede that which is eternal (God), then prayer is either superfluous or pre-determined. Thomas however is keen to defend the freedom of prayer given the immutability of God’s will.

His answer is to draw a distinction between God’s unchangeable, eternal will (ordination) and how this will is brought about through the created order (effect). The freedom of God, in which the creature participates through the use of reason, is open in a sense to an infinite number of possibilities, all of which are governed by Divine Providence. Since Providence works in the created, temporal order, it includes the prayers we offer for others.

It is also important to keep in mind the distinction between predestination and foreknowledge. God knows from eternity everything that we will do. But this foreknowledge does not interfere with our freedom. Just as we might see what will happen when someone steps off a cliff, knowing what will happen is not the same as determining that which happens.

Finally, St Thomas also says that our freedom to pray for others is included in God’s plan, since he knows from eternity what we will do and ask for, the efficacy of our free prayers through Jesus Christ are already incorporated into his eternal Will.

Hope this helps.