Predictions of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible

[Socrates4Jesus]

I consider these miracles:

As a child he killed a lion with a simple stone.
Later he killed a giant with the same procedure.

1 Kings 17
37 And David said: The Lord who delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said to David: Go, and the Lord be with thee.

When he was surrounded by those who wanted to kill him, God enabled him to get away:

1 Kings 19
10 And Saul endeavoured to nail David to the wall with his spear. And David slipt away out of the presence of Saul: and the spear missed him, and was fastened in the wall, and David fled and escaped that night.

1 Kings 23
26 And Saul went on this side of the mountain: and David and his men were on the other side of the mountain: and David despaired of being able to escape from the face of Saul: and Saul and his men encompassed David and his men round about to take them. *27 And a messenger came to Saul, saying: Make haste to come, for the Philistines have poured in themselves upon the land. *28 Wherefore Saul returned, leaving the pursuit of David, and went to meet the Philistines

And then God would place his enemies at his feet:

1 Kings 24 :1 *Then David went up from thence, and dwelt in strong holds of Engaddi. 2 And when Saul was returned from following the Philistines, they told him, saying: Behold, David is in the desert of Engaddi. **3 Saul therefore took three thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and went out to seek after David, and his men, even upon the most craggy rocks, which are accessible only to wild goats. *4 And he came to the sheepcotes, which were in his way. And there was a cave, into which Saul went, to ease nature: now David and his men lay hid in the inner part of the cave. 5 And the servants of David said to him: Behold the day, of which the Lord said to thee: I will deliver thy enemy unto thee, that thou mayest do to him as it shall seem good in thy eyes. Then David arose, and secretly cut off the hem of Saul’s robe.

Sincerely,

De Maria

When i think of a miracle, i think of something not humanly possible being done by a person. However, even if i am wrong, the fact that a person does miracles and predicts the future does not mean that every person who predicts the future does miracles.

Ezekiel and Isaiah predicted the future, for example, but did both of them do miracles?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

There is an amazing prophecy in the Qur’an concerning the eventual fate of Abu Lahab.

This man Abu Lahab, an uncle of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), used to hate Islam so much that he would go after the Prophet wherever he goes to humiliate him. If he saw the Prophet talking to strangers, he used to wait till he finishes and then ask them: what did Mohammed tell you? If he said it’s white then it’s in reality black and if he said it’s night then it’s day. He meant to falsify all what the Prophet says and to make people suspicious about it. And 10 years before the death of Abu Lahab, a sura was inspired to the Prophet, named “Al-Masad”.

"Perish the two hands of Abu Lahab and perish he! His wealth and his children will not benefit him! He will be burnt in a Fire of blazing flames!" [Qur’an, 111:1-3]

This sura tells that Abu Lahab will go to Hell. In other words, it says that Abu Lahab will not convert to Islam.
…

Hamba:

When i think of a prophecy, i think of a person predicting the future in a way that only Allah possibly can. Although Al-Masad’s prediction was correct, it was not something that only Allah would know.

If you knew a man who hated Islam and loved sin and you said, “That guy is hell bound!” I would not call your words an amazing prophecy. Rather, i’d call them a reasonable conclusion.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

we are talking about Moses and the prophet like unto him. We read about Moses in Deuteronomy 34:10

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, In all the signs and the wonders, which the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land…

5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. 6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone. 8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over.

9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses.

10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, 11 who did all those miraculous signs and wonders the LORD sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. 12 For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.

(Deuteronomy 34:5-10)

17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

(Deuteronomy 18:17-22)

Thank you InJesus. By comparing these two passages, i see that there are three subjects to which they refer:

(A) A prophet like Moses

(B) All other prophets of Allah

(C) False prophets
Regarding (A) are these words:

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
and

Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, who did all those miraculous signs and wonders the LORD sent him to do in Egypt …

In both passages there is a reference to a single man (not men) like Moses who does miraculous signs.

Regarding (B) and (C) i find these words:

You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
These appear to refer to all false prophets. In contrast, it seems to refer all true prophets of Allah, and not just the prophet who is like Moses.

My next questions:

Do you think that for the true prophets, the test is that they predict the future with 100% accuracy 100% of the time? Do you think that for the one prophet like Moses the test is that this prophet not only predict the future without error but also do miraculous signs?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Bible OT and NT are full of prophecies about Muhammad, not less than 30 or forty. That is the truth.

I will gladly look at any prophecy of Muhammad (pbuh) you will point out to me! Will you please tell me a book and chapter of the Bible where i might find one of the 30 or 40?

 

[CTA1967]

I will gladly look at any prophecy of Muhammad (pbuh) you will point out to me! Will you please tell me a book and chapter of the Bible where i might find one of the 30 or 40?

As far as I know, the only prophesies that could come close to numbering 30 or 40 are the ones about false teachers.

 

[De_Maria]

a) The Q’ran was written after Mohammad’s alleged death. (Alleged, because there is conclusive proof that Mohammad never existed. )

I’m always interested in that type of information. Can you point me to it on the internet?

b) People live by what is expected of them. The structure of that Sura prohibited him from converting, which is why it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is also why it is an object lesson in why Islam is a false religion. The story contradicts one of the major tenants of Islam;

c) Take a look at the different redactions of the Q’ran, and how that Sura was changed;

xan

jonathon

Please show us the redactions.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

When i think of a miracle, i think of something not humanly possible being done by a person.

Being done by a person?

I think that is erroneous.

A miracle is something done without explanation. A mystery. In fact, I think all would agree that men are incapable of miracles. They are done by God through men or through other media or no media at all. But miracles are from God.

However, even if i am wrong, the fact that a person does miracles and predicts the future does not mean that every person who predicts the future does miracles.

Predicting the future is a type of miracle. But “prophecy” is not necessarily the predicting of future events.

Let me give an example. Jonah warned Nineveh that they must convert or perish. Did he predict the future? No. He gave them a choice.

And there is more than one type of Prophecy. The one we speak of normally is predicting the future. But Prophecy is speaking the word of God. And speaking the Word of God can be very mundane business. All we need do is teach the Catechism, that is the Traditions of God by word or Scripture.

Ezekiel and Isaiah predicted the future, for example, but did both of them do miracles?

Neither. God informed them of future events. They simply repeated what God had said. God performed the miracle through them.

And that is the point I was making in mentioning the miracles of David. God associated His miracles with David. In this case, God did not work through David but ordered coincidental events for David to be saved.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[paarsurrey]

Predictions of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible

Hi

For knowing predictions of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible, one may access if one likes, the relevant chapter in :

alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

Thanks

 

[inJESUS]

Paar, the article starts by saying Mirza ahmad is khalifatu al Masih.

so you consider that when Jesus says He is coming back. He actually meant that He is sending someone else?

 

[paarsurrey]

A miracle is something done without explanation. A mystery. In fact, I think all would agree that men are incapable of miracles. They are done by God through men or through other media or no media at all. But miracles are from God.
Predicting the future is a type of miracle. But “prophecy” is not necessarily the predicting of future events.
De Maria

Hi

What are the miracles?- Ahmadia understanding.

With the possibility of virgin birth being wide open, it does not remain to be all that impossible and unnatural. Where is the need to search for a supernatural explanation of Jesus’ birth, or even go beyond that to the farthest extreme of believing in the birth of a literal ‘Son’ of God through a human birth? When all this is observed as a fact of nature, why is it hard to believe that the birth of Jesus Christ was a hidden natural phenomenon, brought about by a special design of God?

Something happened in Mary which gave that child a miraculous birth, without a man having touched her. It is the Ahmadiyya Muslim belief that this is exactly what happened. Our case is unshakeable because no scientist can dismiss it as nonsensical or opposed to the known laws of nature.

Miracles are not seen in Islam as unnatural occurrences, but as natural phenomena that are concealed from human knowledge at that period of time. Otherwise, there would be many questions raised against the wisdom of God. If God created the laws of nature Himself, He should have made some provisions whereby without breaking them, He could bring about desired solutions to a problem.

Not all laws are known to man. There are categories of laws working as if in different tiers and on separate plains. Sometimes they are known to man only on one plain and man’s sight is not able to penetrate beyond. As time goes on, man’s knowledge increases, so does the penetration and his capacity to observe such laws as hitherto remained unperceived. In another era of scientific progress, new discoveries throw more light on such laws which seem to work in groups. So, not only is their function better understood but also their interaction with other laws.

Those things that appeared to be miracles in the early ages are no longer considered so. Miracles are so, only in relation to man’s knowledge in a specific period of time. When a special exercise of God’s power is displayed, apparently a law is broken. But it is not so; it is a hidden law that was already there and came into operation through God’s command. The people of that time could not have understood that law nor had they any control over it.

For example, the force of magnetism was not known to man a few thousand years ago. If somebody had accidentally discovered it and had contrived a device by which he could levitate things without any apparent cause discernible to the naked eye and to the wonderment of everyone, he could then exclaim, ‘Lo, a miracle, a miracle’. Today, such tricks are considered common place and trivial.

The knowledge of man is limited whereas that of God is unlimited. If a law comes into operation that is beyond the scope of man’s knowledge, it looks like a miracle. But looking retrospectively at such instances with the hindsight of knowledge gained since, we can dismiss all such so-called breaches of the laws of nature as merely natural phenomena which were not fully comprehended by the man of that age.

This is why I said that there had to be a natural phenomenon responsible for the single parent birth of Jesus Christ, which was unknown to man of that period; it is not fully known to man even today. But science is advancing in that direction and more is being understood. A time may therefore come, when no one will be able to claim that the birth of Jesus was unnatural. They would have to agree that it was a natural but rare occurrence, so rare that it seldom occurs in human experience.
alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_1.html#pgfId-1006069

Thanks

 

[inJESUS]

well neither the NT nor the Quran present this incident as “natural”…both say it was a miracle , not a normal phenomena, unless yu have a different Quran

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

What are the miracles?- Ahmadia understanding.

With the possibility of virgin birth being wide open, it does not remain to be all that impossible and unnatural. Where is the need to search for a supernatural explanation of Jesus’ birth, or even go beyond that to the farthest extreme of believing in the birth of a literal ‘Son’ of God through a human birth? When all this is observed as a fact of nature, why is it hard to believe that the birth of Jesus Christ was a hidden natural phenomenon, brought about by a special design of God? …

Lol!!! This is laughable. C’mon Paarsy. You believe this stuff?

Let me get this straight? This guy is expecting us to believe that the birth of Christ without a biological father was not miraculous? That it was a natural event?

If this were a natural event, wouldn’t it happen frequently? Yet this is a singular event in human history. Except for Adam and Eve, everyone else has had a biological father and mother.

If a human being could be born without a father as a natural event, there must be a group of people whose women do not need the interference of men in order to conceive children in their wombs. Paarsy, just point to that group. Where is it today?

As far as I can see, there is none, never has been. Only one woman ever had a child without having relations with a man. That was Mary of Nazareth. She bore the Son of God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

What are the miracles?- Ahmadia understanding.

…This is why I said that there had to be a natural phenomenon responsible for the single parent birth of Jesus Christ, which was unknown to man of that period; it is not fully known to man even today. But science is advancing in that direction and more is being understood. A time may therefore come, when no one will be able to claim that the birth of Jesus was unnatural. They would have to agree that it was a natural but rare occurrence, so rare that it seldom occurs in human experience.
alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_1.html#pgfId-1006069

Thanks

False Paarsy. Man is learning a great deal about life. And man can even CLONE creatures in a test tube. But that is not NATURAL.

Natural means “of nature”. God designed man’s reproduction to be between man and woman in conjugal relations:

Genesis 2
24 Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.

Jesus Christ’s birth was not natural. It was supernatural because God intervened to bring it about.

Cloning is not natural. It is manmade. Man intervenes to bring about the birth of a child without the conjugal relations between a man and a woman. Even if cloning were to become the predominant method of producing offspring, it would never be the natural method.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Being done by a person?

I think that is erroneous.

A miracle is something done without explanation. A mystery. In fact, I think all would agree that men are incapable of miracles. They are done by God through men or through other media or no media at all. But miracles are from God.
…

DM:

Yes, you got me there! A miracle is something impossible being done by God, sometimes through people. I stand corrected.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… Predicting the future is a type of miracle. But “prophecy” is not necessarily the predicting of future events.

Let me give an example. Jonah warned Nineveh that they must convert or perish. Did he predict the future? No. He gave them a choice.

And there is more than one type of Prophecy. The one we speak of normally is predicting the future. But Prophecy is speaking the word of God. And speaking the Word of God can be very mundane business. All we need do is teach the Catechism, that is the Traditions of God by word or Scripture. …

Ahh, i see i’m in the presence of someone who has given this some thought. Good! Perhaps i will learn something new.

Yes, i see that perhaps all prophecies are miracles but not all miracles are prophecies. Good point.

I also appreciate your distinction between the different types of prophetic utterances in the Bible. One might describe them as:

(a) Absolute foretelling of the future events that have or are guaranteed to come true.

(b) Conditional foretelling of possible future events that will come true unless something happens to change those events

(c) Forth-telling of Scripture (i.e., teaching the Bible in a way that benefits others).

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… God informed them of future events. They simply repeated what God had said. God performed the miracle through them. …

Agreed. Allah revealed the future to them. I believe you might also agree that the only miracles Allah did through Isaiah (pbuh) and Ezekiel (pbuh) and some of the other prophets was to foretell the future. The God did not use them to part the Red Sea nor raise the dead nor do any other miraculous signs other than writing history before it happens.

Would you agree, then, that the minimum requirement for a person to be a bona fide prophet of Allah is that the God tells him what the future will be? After all, who but the only true God would know the future with 100% accuracy 100% of the time?

This, to me, appears to be the point the God is making through Moses (pbuh):

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

(Deuteronomy 18)

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Hi

For knowing predictions of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible, one may access if one likes, the relevant chapter in :

alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

Thanks

Please tell me the number or name of that relevant chapter in the Quran that quotes the Bible. I have read the Quran and found none. Did i miss something?

 

[De_Maria]

Agreed. Allah revealed the future to them. I believe you might also agree that the only miracles Allah did through Isaiah (pbuh) and Ezekiel (pbuh) and some of the other prophets was to foretell the future. The God did not use them to part the Red Sea nor raise the dead nor do any other miraculous signs other than writing history before it happens.

Would you agree, then, that the minimum requirement for a person to be a bona fide prophet of Allah is that the God tells him what the future will be? After all, who but the only true God would know the future with 100% accuracy 100% of the time?

This, to me, appears to be the point the God is making through Moses (pbuh):
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.(Deuteronomy 18)

No. In my opinion, the minimum requirement of a Prophet of God is to tell the truth as God desires.

Jeremias 23 28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream: and he that hath my word, let him speak my word with truth: what hath the chaff to do with the wheat, saith the Lord?

The verse to which you refer teaches how to detect a false prophet. If a person comes with a tale of future events saying God has revealed them to him and those future events do not come about, then that person is a false prophet.

How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?

And his message is not from the Lord.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

No. In my opinion, the minimum requirement of a Prophet of God is to tell the truth as God desires.

Jeremias 23 28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream: and he that hath my word, let him speak my word with truth: what hath the chaff to do with the wheat, saith the Lord?

The verse to which you refer teaches how to detect a false prophet. If a person comes with a tale of future events saying God has revealed them to him and those future events do not come about, then that person is a false prophet.

How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?

And his message is not from the Lord.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Yes, i would agree that anyone who claims to live for the only true God must always speak the truth in love. I also understand your opinion that a person might be a prophet without predicting the future. However, your opinion or my opinion does not matter. What matters is the God’s opinion.

Looking at the immediate context of the passage you quoted, i find these words:

16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds,
not from the mouth of the LORD.
17 They keep saying to those who despise me,
‘The LORD says: You will have peace.’
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts
they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’
18 But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD
to see or to hear his word?
Who has listened and heard his word?
19 See, the storm of the LORD
will burst out in wrath,
a whirlwind swirling down
on the heads of the wicked.
20 The anger of the LORD will not turn back
until he fully accomplishes
the purposes of his heart.
In days to come
you will understand it clearly.

21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.

*(Jeremiah 26:16-21)*In other words, the false prophets were predicting that the Jewish people would have victory over the foreign invaders. Their predictions of the future were all lies, for the truth was that God was sending these forces to judge the Jewish people, defeat them in war, and take them as captives to what is today modern Iran.

In contrast, Jeremiah shows he is a true prophet by giving them a prediction from Allah:7 “So then, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ 8 but they will say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”

(Jeremiah 26:7-8) This, of course, came true many years later when the ancient Persian king Cyrus (pbuh) gave the order for the Jewish people to return to Palestine.

I suppose, then, my next question to you DM is this: If you are correct that a person may be a prophet without predicting the future, than there must be one example in the Bible of a prophet who does not give such a prediction from the God. Can you give me one example from the Bible of a prophet who did not speak a prediction of the future from the God?

 

[De_Maria]

Yes, i would agree that anyone who claims to live for the only true God must always speak the truth in love. I also understand your opinion that a person might be a prophet without predicting the future. However, your opinion or my opinion does not matter. What matters is the God’s opinion.

Looking at the immediate context of the passage you quoted, i find these words:
16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds,
not from the mouth of the LORD.
17 They keep saying to those who despise me,
‘The LORD says: You will have peace.’
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts
they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’
18 But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD
to see or to hear his word?
Who has listened and heard his word?
19 See, the storm of the LORD
will burst out in wrath,
a whirlwind swirling down
on the heads of the wicked.
20 The anger of the LORD will not turn back
until he fully accomplishes
the purposes of his heart.
In days to come
you will understand it clearly.

21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
*(Jeremiah 26:16-21)*In other words, the false prophets were predicting that the Jewish people would have victory over the foreign invaders. Their predictions of the future were all lies, for the truth was that God was sending these forces to judge the Jewish people, defeat them in war, and take them as captives to what is today modern Iran.

In contrast, Jeremiah shows he is a true prophet by giving them a prediction from Allah:7 “So then, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ 8 but they will say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”(Jeremiah 26:7-8) This, of course, came true many years later when the ancient Persian king Cyrus (pbuh) gave the order for the Jewish people to return to Palestine.

I suppose, then, my next question to you DM is this: If you are correct that a person may be a prophet without predicting the future, than there must be one example in the Bible of a prophet who does not give such a prediction from the God. Can you give me one example from the Bible of a prophet who did not speak a prediction of the future from the God?

I’m not aware of any predictions associated with this particular company of Prophets.

1 Kings 19 *20 So Saul sent officers to take David: and when they saw a company of prophets prophesying, and Samuel presiding over them, the spirit of the Lord came also upon them, and they likewise began to prophesy. * 18 “Najoth”… It was probably a school or college of prophets, in or near Ramath under the direction of Samuel.

Note the explanation in the Douay Rheims for this occasion of prophesying by Prophets of God.

20 **“Prophesying”… That is, singing praises to God by a divine impulse. **God was pleased on this occasion that both Samuel’s messengers and himself should experience the like impulse, that he might understand, by this instance of the divine power, how vain are the designs of man against him whom God protects.

In addition, did Abraham predict the future?

Genesis 20

7 Now therefore restore the man his wife, for he is a prophet: and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: but if thou wilt not restore her, know that thou shalt surely die, thou and all that are thine.

Isaac, Jacob any of the twelve patriarchs (except Joseph)?

Job, Jonah?

I consider the Apostles to be the New Testament Prophets of God. Which among them made any predictions? Some recorded the predictions of Jesus Christ, but as far as I know, only Peter, Paul and John are known to have made predictions of the future.

I’m sincerely asking. I don’t know of any predictions associated with them. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t.

Sincerely,

De Maria