Pregnant woman who ate rat poison charged with murder

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This is a tragic story.

The irony is that if this distraught woman had paid someone to kill her baby through abortion rather than the baby dying as a result of her suicide attempt, that would have been legal and “acceptable.” We truly are living in surreal times.

"Pregnant woman who ate rat poison charged with murder

INDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) – An Indianapolis woman who tried to commit suicide by eating rat poison near the end of her pregnancy was charged with murder in the death of her baby, officials said on Wednesday."…

Entire article: comcast.net/articles/news-national/20110316/news.ratpoisonmuder/
 
Though this is purely speculation on my part, what if the desire wasn’t suicide, but actually was to terminate the pregnancy? Since few (if any) doctors would perform an abortion that late in the pregnancy, perhaps the suicide attempt was a cover for trying to kill her baby. Either way, murder is murder…
 
Mumbles140 said:
Though this is purely speculation on my part, what if the desire wasn’t suicide, but actually was to terminate the pregnancy? Since few (if any) doctors would perform an abortion that late in the pregnancy, perhaps the suicide attempt was a cover for trying to kill her baby. Either way, murder is murder…
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It does not sound like it was just a self-induced abortion, since she seemed delighted after the little girl’s birth (purchased baby clothes, named her, etc.). Either that, or she is really unstable. But her lawyer sounds like an “airhead.”
 
Young_Thinker said:
It does not sound like it was just a self-induced abortion, since she seemed delighted after the little girl’s birth (purchased baby clothes, named her, etc.). Either that, or she is really unstable. But her lawyer sounds like an “airhead.”
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Ok, but I think there is more to it. Obviously, the baby was born in distress, was on life support, and they ultimately removed her from life support. So I guess I’m wondering why the mother left to buy clothes (because buying them before the incident is irrelevant). Also, chances are the baby was already named that far along in the pregnancy, so I don’t think this matters.

However, rat poison is a very interesting way of trying to kill oneself, and I think it would be very easy to guess how much could make a person sick and alive, while killing an unborn child, versus drinking enough to guarantee suicide.

Furthermore, obviously the woman is distraught, but what is she going to do with a baby when she doesn’t have any family in this country, and the man who was supposed to start the family with her (presumably the baby’s father) abandons her?

Either way, I think the woman being unstable is evident. I’m just saying that, in my opinion, this may be more than just a simple suicide, and either way, I support the prosecution.
 
Mumbles140 said:
Ok, but I think there is more to it. Obviously, the baby was born in distress, was on life support, and they ultimately removed her from life support. So I guess I’m wondering why the mother left to buy clothes (because buying them before the incident is irrelevant). Also, chances are the baby was already named that far along in the pregnancy, so I don’t think this matters.

However, rat poison is a very interesting way of trying to kill oneself, and I think it would be very easy to guess how much could make a person sick and alive, while killing an unborn child, versus drinking enough to guarantee suicide.

Furthermore, obviously the woman is distraught, but what is she going to do with a baby when she doesn’t have any family in this country, and the man who was supposed to start the family with her (presumably the baby’s father) abandons her?

Either way, I think the woman being unstable is evident. I’m just saying that, in my opinion, this may be more than just a simple suicide, and either way, I support the prosecution.
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That is probably true, though I would disagree with the insinuation that she did not have much of an option because she had no relatives in this country and her fiance’ left her. If she is truly helpless, how she get to this country in the first place and stay here this long? And if she really could not take care of the child, she could always put her up for adoption.
 
Young_Thinker said:
That is probably true, though I would disagree with the insinuation that she did not have much of an option because she had no relatives in this country and her fiance’ left her. If she is truly helpless, how she get to this country in the first place and stay here this long? And if she really could not take care of the child, she could always put her up for adoption.
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I wasn’t trying to defend her actions at all. Rather, I was using a possible mindset of hers(again, this is all pure speculation on my part, probably from watching too much Law and Order) to ‘rationalize to herself’ the murder of the child. I believe there are always options, adoption being especially important because it gives those unable to naturally concieve a way to have a child and help out someone in a difficult position. And, the woman co-owned a business, so it is unlikely finances were that poor for her.
 
😦 It’s just incredibly sad. I can’t imagine what state of mind she must have been in, or how she must feel now. Prayers for her and the dead child.
 
Cecilia_Dympna said:
Rat poison is warfarin. A drug that is given to people who need an anticoagulant (those with artificial heart valves, deep vein thromboses for instance). It is contraindicated in pregnancy because it crosses the placenta and causes birth defects (particularly in the first trimester).

In overdose, it could kill a person, by causing that person to bleed to death. It would be a ridiculous way to induce an abortion. It just wouldn’t be possible to get the dose right to kill the baby but not the mother.

I say all this because it doesn’t sound like the woman was trying to kill the baby. It sounds like she was suffering. We have no idea what pressures she was under, or what mental health problems she was experiencing. We should be wanting to help people who are struggling, rather than judging them. Maybe if there was more help and support available, women could persevere with difficult pregnancies more easily.

I also want to point out that it doesn’t sound like the father is blame free in all this.
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I’m not familiar with the effects of rat poison, and I was merely speculating that it seemed more than a simple case of attempted suicide from my perspective, and I was just explaining why I felt that way. However, my personal opinions are not meant to judge this woman, nor are they meant to rationalize her actions. I was merely saying the woman was in a bad situation, and she said what she did was a suicide attempt, and I’m thinking maybe there was a little more to it than that.

On a side note, the story does not specify if the father is the boyfriend. In fact, it makes it appear he is not the father by stating he agreed to ‘help raise the child’, with no indication of a possessive (i.e. his child). So, the question becomes - is the boyfriend (if he isn’t the father) to blame for breaking up with his girlfriend who is pregnant, although not with his child? I would have to argue ‘no.’ He broke up with a woman, and he had no attachment to the child. Therefore, I don’t think he can be held accountable for her actions following the breakup.
 
If she wanted to commit sucidie (which she should not have done) she should have waited till she had the child.😦
 
Cecilia_Dympna said:
I hear what you are saying, and you may well be right. But now I’m even more disgruntled with the father, wherever, whoever the hell he is.
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I don’t know if you can be disgruntled towards the father because we don’t know the circumstances. Perhaps the father was a sperm donor, or was never told about the pregnancy. I think the focus needs to be more on prayers for the child, as well as for the mental and emotional healing of the woman. I also pray that justice be served in the manner most fitting - be it incarceration in prison or time spent at a mental institution to cure any mental illness/defect.
 
Cecilia_Dympna said:
Again, more compassion please. How can you be so hardhearted.
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Excuse me? I feels sorry for the baby not for her. I’m just saying if she really want to kill herself she should have waited after having the child. I’m not saying she should have tryed to kill herself.
 
Cecilia_Dympna said:
I hear what you are saying about the father. But I can’t believe that you would want this woman locked up??
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I never requested her to be locked up. I want there to be a trial so that, if she really has a mental defect, she can be cured of it and not held responsible for her actions, which should help with emotional healing. However, if she was just ‘angry’ while still acting rationally, fully aware of her actions and causing the death of her child, I believe imprisonment is correct. I’m saying she was very upset and emotional because that is what the article says - it will be up to the legal process to determine her sanity. And if she is truly found to be sane, than prison is where she belongs.
 
Cecilia_Dympna said:
Just try and imagine how desperate, how unhappy, how hopeless this woman must have felt to try such drastic action.

People do terrible things, but before judging them, just try and remember what bleak, desperate, miserable lives they often have. Then you can count yourself lucky that you’ve never faced such a hideous situation. And hopefully be kinder towards them.
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This is a very compassionate and wise post.
 
JaredM said:
If she wanted to commit sucidie (which she should not have done) she should have waited till she had the child.😦
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themeginthemoon said:
😦 It’s just incredibly sad. I can’t imagine what state of mind she must have been in, or how she must feel now. Prayers for her and the dead child.
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Don’t worry about her or the child, the palms of Gods hands are very big and they do not have the characteristics of a sieve.
 
JaredM said:
Excuse me? I feels sorry for the baby not for her. I’m just saying if she really want to kill herself she should have waited after having the child. I’m not saying she should have tryed to kill herself.
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I think someone is a cafeteria catholic…
 
Mumbles140 said:
I wasn’t trying to defend her actions at all. Rather, I was using a possible mindset of hers(again, this is all pure speculation on my part, probably from watching too much Law and Order) to ‘rationalize to herself’ the murder of the child. I believe there are always options, adoption being especially important because it gives those unable to naturally concieve a way to have a child and help out someone in a difficult position. And, the woman co-owned a business, so it is unlikely finances were that poor for her.
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I see what you are saying.
 
Cecilia_Dympna said:
It’s a little more complex than dividing people into two groups - sane and insane. It is possible to be sane (ie not irrational) but in a hideous situation. We really need to show more kindness and compassion when people do terrible things, and remember that often they are living a horrific life. I’ve got a baby on the way, and I would have to be desperate to attempt to hurt myself knowing that I would hurt the baby too. This poor woman has done an awful thing, but she must have been going through hell to do this.
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Look, I’m not saying that sanity equates to happiness. But being in a desperate situation doesn’t excuse someone from their actions. It doesn’t condemn them to eternal Hell, either, but in our justice system, people who are of right mind (in the sense they can appreciate the consequences of their actions) who willingly choose to do harm to themselves or others are held responsible. I completely believe she was desperate, confused, and emotional at that time, but it ultimately comes down to her mental faculties. When in that situation, was she so out of it that she didn’t really understand what she was doing? Or did she willingly decide she was ‘done with this world, so damn the consequences’ and commit her actions? I don’t know, and I have no preference either way.

My prayers, in addition to being with her and the soul of the child, are that the proper sentence, if found guilty/not guilty by reason of mental defect, are handed down. If she was sane and just having a bad day, she deserves jail time. If she was mentally unstable, she needs medical help. And there can be cases where ‘both’ apply, and so there are institutions fit to handle those cases. I just want her to go where she deserves to be.
 
"Woman who attempted suicide while pregnant is accused of murder
Prosecution would be a ‘significant step’ towards abortion being outlawed, says lawyer for pregnant women’s group

A woman accused of murdering her four-day-old baby girl by trying to kill herself with rat poison while pregnant has become a cause célèbre for US women’s groups and civil liberties organisations."…

Entire article: guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/15/woman-attempted-suicide-pregnant-accused
 
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