Pregnant women shot by Police Officer

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Would you want the police officer in the scenario you presented to be charged with murder or manslaughter?

Do you want police officers to not defend their own lives against potentially dangerous women because that woman may be pregnant?
 
PhiriTalk said:
I am talking about US law, not necessarily catholic teaching.
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The law doesn’t exist, so we cannot talk about “the law”. All we can talk about is moral law and ethics. Bottom line, the principle of double effect would be at play in that circumstance.

His right to protect his own life from an imminent threat would mean that the death of the child was an undesirable effect of his attempt to preserve his life. This is similar to a case where a mother’s life is in imminent danger if she continues her pregnancy. It would be morally licit for her to act to save her life. If the child did not survive, the child’s death would be an undesired effect. It would not be murder.
 
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PhiriTalk said:
Do you have a source to confirm this?
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Words mean things. It’s my job to know what words mean. 🙂

Black’s Law Dictionary says. “Murder - The killing of a human being with malice aforethought.” “Aforethought” means “thinking about and ultimately deciding to do something.” (OK, so I’ll look up Aforethought for you a well— Black’s sez-- “Thought of in advance; deliberate; premeditated.”)

It goes on to say, “At common law, the crime of murder was not subdivided, but many state statutes have adopted the degree structure outlined below (though the Modern Penal Code has not.)”
 
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PhiriTalk said:
victim of the underlying offense
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That is the key here. A police officer defending him or herself is not committing an underlying offense. The closest similar situation that I can think of is the offer’s bullet ricocheting and killing or injuring a bystander. If anything, in most U.S. states, AFAIK, if the mother survives but the fetus does not then the mother could be considered guilty of felony murder - if anyone dies as a result of your committing a felony then you are guilty of felony murder, no matter how the death occurred. Yes, even if an innocent (or an accomplice) is killed by the police while trying to stop the felony or apprehend you then you are the guilty party. Standard disclaimer - I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, so don’t take this as actual legal advice or professional opinion.
 
This post is a great example of a concept known as “concern trolling.”
 
I would want them to be charged with murder as they would have unlawfully killed an unborn person.

I would want police officers to not be killing innocent unborn children. Pro-life is pro-life.
 
But the mother did not kill the child, the police officer did.

An innocent unborn child did not commit any crime though and is a separate person from the mother.
 
Murder is by definition intention to kill. At worst this would be manslaughter, but that would be pushing it because the embryo/fetus is entirely physically dependent on the mother’s body to live. Kind of like if one of a conjoined twin tried to kill you, you shot him/her and his/her twin died, you wouldn’t be legally responsible for the twin’s death.
 
Is he defending himself against the woman or the unborn child? They are separate persons.
 
A fetus after about 23 weeks is not dependent on the mother to live. The woman and the unborn child are separate individuals.
 
Then why should he not be held account for killing the innocent unborn child who did nothing wrong or even threaten the officer?
 
Because he did not act to directly kill the child. He acted to legitimately defend himself against an imminent threat.

Take the baby out of the womb. Let’s say the mother is holding her child and aiming a gun at the officer. He legitimately engages the woman and stops the threat against his life. In the process the child in her arms also dies. Would he be charged with murder?
 
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Because like the conjoined twin example, seriously harming or killing the fetus/baby is unavoidable.
 
People with disabilities have the right to life, just as an unborn child. Just because someone can’t defend themselves, doesn’t mean that its okay to kill them.

UNBORN CHILDREN HAVE RIGHTS!!!
 
What if he did directly kill the child though by shooting the women in uterus?

How can one kill an unborn child in self defense?

I believe that anyone who kills an innocent child should be held accountable, yes.
 
How can someone defend themselves against an unborn child? It isn’t the child’s fault what the woman is doing.

I would prefer that cops not kill unborn children.
 
So the killing of an innocent unborn child is just collateral damage?
 
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