Presbyterians Approve Gay Marriage

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JonNC said:
You’re right, if sola scriptura means that scripture is the final norm. The question then is, how does the PC-USA support their decision from scripture, in light of Genesis 2, and various books of the NT?
And for Lutherans who applaud this, how does a Lutheran defend this from scripture and the confessions?

Jon
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Yes, you are absolutely correct. Sola Scriptura should have NO grounds for SS mariage! It is a very corrupt sacreligion. I dont think this can be directly attributed to holding to Sola Scriptura (indirectly, yes of course there is a relation Catholics can see).
 
So just to be clear, guys, this is the PCUSA (Presbyterian Church USA), as opposed to the more dominant and more conservative PCA (Presbyterian Church of America). I grew up PCA, and Scott Hahn also was PCA before he converted. They are much more true to the Presbyterian doctrine than PCUSA. PCA would never, ever do something like this.
 
rcwitness said:
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Sola Scriptura should have NO grounds for SS mariage! It is a very corrupt sacreligion. I dont think this can be directly attributed to holding to Sola Scriptura (indirectly, yes of course there is a relation Catholics can see).
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The PCUSA hasn’t adhered to Sola Scriptura in nearly a hundred years or so.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
You may want to ponder the thought that the same forces which have brought this to bear in the PCUSA are also working to bring it to Roman Catholicsm.
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It’s nothing new. Those forces have been attacking the Catholic Church from the moment Christ established it. Heck our first Pope denied Christ. St. Paul was on his way to persecute the Church when he was converted. Jesus asked …Paul why are you persecuting me (the Church). The many heresies that the Church fought in it’s infancy.
 
CompSciGuy said:
So just to be clear, guys, this is the PCUSA (Presbyterian Church USA), as opposed to the more dominant and more conservative PCA (Presbyterian Church of America). I grew up PCA, and Scott Hahn also was PCA before he converted. They are much more true to the Presbyterian doctrine than PCUSA. PCA would never, ever do something like this.
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The small Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church is very conservative also. It’s unfortunate that when people hear “Presbyterian” or “Lutheran” they automatically assume “Liberal Mainline Protestant.”

Interesting chart from Pew Research.
 
Stilldreamn said:
The small Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church is very conservative also. It’s unfortunate that when people hear “Presbyterian” or “Lutheran” they automatically assume “Liberal Mainline Protestant.”

Interesting chart from Pew Research.
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I grew up ARP and still attend with my family on occasion. It’s very far from becoming liberal, it’s almost too conservative for me.
 
Aslan10 said:
I grew up ARP and still attend with my family on occasion. It’s very far from becoming liberal, it’s almost too conservative for me.
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If you consider cardigans and pipes too conservative 😃
 
Does anyone actually know their theological rational for changing their definition of marriage? I ask out of curiosity.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
You may want to ponder the thought that the same forces which have brought this to bear in the PCUSA are also working to bring it to Roman Catholicsm.
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We know. But the Catholic Church is bound by Sacred Tradition. Not just modern interpretation of Scripture.

But believe me, we know they are trying to chip away at the Catholic Church.
 
Stilldreamn said:
I know exactly what you mean. It’s curious how we are dismayed (but not really surprised) when a Protestant church succumbs to popular culture, but we rely on the Roman Catholic (and Orthodox!) Churches to stand as the (last?) bulwark.

“What does this mean?” (catechism reference/Lutheran insider remark) 😦
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It’s the work of The Holy Spirit.
 
Stilldreamn said:
The small Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church is very conservative also. It’s unfortunate that when people hear “Presbyterian” or “Lutheran” they automatically assume “Liberal Mainline Protestant.”

Interesting chart from Pew Research.
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I note they don’t include the Orthodox churches.
 
Rohzek said:
Does anyone actually know their theological rational for changing their definition of marriage? I ask out of curiosity.
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Maybe the PCUSA doesn’t have one. I know that in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), they’ve just stated that there is a whole range of views in our church from those who think homosexuality is a sin to those who don’t and that no consensus exists:
This church also acknowledges that consensus does not exist concerning
how to regard same-gender committed relationships, even after many years
of thoughtful, respectful, and faithful study and conversation. We do not
have agreement on whether this church should honor these relationships and
uplift, shelter, and protect them or on precisely how it is appropriate to do so…
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Although at this time this church lacks consensus on this matter, it encourages
all people to live out their faith in the local and global community of
the baptized with profound respect for the conscience-bound belief of the
neighbor. This church calls for mutual respect in relationships and for guidance
that seeks the good of each individual and of the community. Regarding
our life together as we live with disagreement, the people in this church
will continue to accompany one another in study, prayer, discernment,
pastoral care, and mutual respect.
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The ELCA has left decisions on same-sex marriage to each individual pastor.
 
Thorolfr said:
Maybe the PCUSA doesn’t have one. I know that in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), they’ve just stated that there is a whole range of views in our church from those who think homosexuality is a sin to those who don’t and that no consensus exists
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Unfortunately for them, Scripture has one consensus.
 
JonNC said:
You’re right, if sola scriptura means that scripture is the final norm. The question then is, how does the PC-USA support their decision from scripture, in light of Genesis 2, and various books of the NT?
And for Lutherans who applaud this, how does a Lutheran defend this from scripture and the confessions?

Jon
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Jon,

I’m right if even scripture is not the final norm. 😃

Does anyone know if there is a statement based on scripture released by their church?

I would expect them to address this to their members??
 
Per_Crucem said:
Unfortunately for them, Scripture has one consensus.
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My guess is that they’ve taken the stance that the Bible is silent regarding condemnation of same-sex marriage since no where in the Bible is it directly prohibited.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
My guess is that they’ve taken the stance that the Bible is silent regarding condemnation of same-sex marriage since no where in the Bible is it directly prohibited.
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Even if Scripture were silent in other places about the perversion of homosexual relationships, it would be undone simply by Jesus’ discourses on marriage to the Pharisees. Since Jesus there refers to the creation as what God intended marriage to be, it rules out any other form of marriage.
 
Catholics follow the Scripture exclusiveness in Genesis 1: 27-31.

Considering the details in Genesis 1: 27-31, common sense should recognize that same-sex unions are not part of propagation. Same-sex whatever is not an option for verse 28.
 
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