It may or may not be, correct? A body without the Scripturally attested three-fold ministry (deacon, priest, bishop) cannot be dismissed as merely organizational, when it has been divinely revealed and recorded.
Correct, cf Aristotle.
Ah-Yup. That sounds about right. 'Course, at the end, when you break the fast, you’ve got dem der Luterns bringing around the coffee (aka “Lutheran Communion”).Be careful, some of us Easterners are good at that. Next thing you know, you’ll be standing for hungry for 4hrs on a Sunday wondering where all the instruments went
I would add that there was a communion of bishops in the Bible. It’s not just having “a” bishop, but a bishop in communion with other bishops. There are a few “lone ranger” bishops in the world today, not really in communion with anyone. I have never heard of good coming from their activity.
Yes, there is a communion of bishops. The Porvoo communion has approximately 200 bishops (not counting those who are retired). The Roman Catholic communion that covers the same territories count approximately 190 (with Spain being the winner with 70 dioceses and archdiocese).
However, Porvoo doesn’t fit the criteria for even the Church of Norway as claimed by the previous post - Porvoo allows for female clergy, church “pulpit exchange”, etc without any necessary prior individual approvals from each bishop. How does Porvoo reconcile with the specific rules of each denomination, or within even each community? For example, I know Porvoo allows the Protestant Episcopal Church USA female priest to concelebrate with a female priest of the Church of South India North Kerala diocese - neither of which are recognized as ordained in the Church of South India Madhya Kerala diocese (MK does not currently officially recognize female ordination). Should these two females theoretically attend a conference for one week in the CSI-MKD, neither would be allowed to celebrate in any of their altars. In addition, the CSI-NK female clergy woman may have been ordained prior to the Union in a presbyter (non-Episcopal) ordination not recognized by the Episcopal Church USA nor the Church of Norway.
Neither of the churches you have described are part of Porvoo.
Seems to me its loophole. Peer-pressure can be very difficult in an inter-church Communion gathering. The Church of England is a part of Porvoo, including indirectly all it’s subsidiaries. Do you mean that if the Church of England invites both the Church of South India and one of the Porvoo Churches - both of which are in ‘full communion’, that one clergyman or bishop would refuse to attend due to the possibility of a woman-priest/woman-bishop? More likely they will all attend and
give some excuse later, if asked.Yes, that’s going to be kind of awkward for those clergy that don’t believe in woman priests or bishops, isn’t it?
It seems in the Church of Sweden, however, that one cannot be ordained if one openly opposes female ordination.
Jon
A fair number of the Anglican Communion members likely wouldn’t be there, for that or similar reasons. Many of the Global South jurisdictions avoided the last Lambeth Conference in 2008. The next one, in 2018, is either cancelled or postponed. The alignment of Anglicanism is shifting. Both within and without the Communion.Yes, that’s going to be kind of awkward for those clergy that don’t believe in woman priests or bishops, isn’t it?
When you talk about the Church of England’s subsidiaries I begin to suspect you are talking out of your hat.Seems to me its loophole. Peer-pressure can be very difficult in an inter-church Communion gathering. The Church of England is a part of Porvoo, including indirectly all it’s subsidiaries. Do you mean that if the Church of England invites both the Church of South India and one of the Porvoo Churches - both of which are in ‘full communion’, that one clergyman or bishop would refuse to attend due to the possibility of a woman-priest/woman-bishop? More likely they will all attend and
Good example, the Marthoma Syrian Church does not have or (currently) recognize female clergy (although it seems more and more likely that they will), but is in full communion with the CoE. They invited the Rowan Williams to India, he brought along some female clergy in his entourage. Are they going to tell their guests they are not allowed to vest? If they are vested, will they be asked to de-vest and stand with the congregation? The YouTube video on this particular occasion shows neither, they just ignored the glaring inconsistency.
On the reverse side, when the CoE invites all their sister communion partners along for the installation of the Archbp of Canterbury or some other prominent See, will most refuse out of the concern a female cleric may join in? I doubt it.
You are counting in that 200, bishops who not only disagree with each other on many areas of theology, but about the very nature of priesthood and episcopacy. The fact that they have some degree of compatibility does not mean they are all “in communion” with those in other denominations. In many cases they are not really “in communion” with other bishops in their own denomination if they disagree about important elements of Holy Orders, including the episcopacy.
I imagine it’s because the Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church is part of the Porvoo Communion.
Yes, that’s why.