Present day Mormon techniques?

[RebeccaJ]

I feel so sad for my grandson who is 8 because sometimes the other Mormon boys that ride his bus will include him, but then other times they exclude him and he is sensitive so he cries. I try to explain they belong to a different religion and they go to the same church and do activities together, but he doesn’t understand. They don’t seem to teach them about being nice to everybody even if they don’t believe they way you do.

When my daughter faced the same, at about 10 years old, I told her that she had not done anything wrong, and that the problem was with the other kids. They are the ones who needed to work out how to live in a world where everyone is not like themselves. I told her to have compassion for them, because they hadnt been taught better, and she didn’t know why they acted the way they did. Interesting enough, it turned out the two biggest instigators against her were struggling in abusive homes, and both were involved with drugs, in junior high school. She later made a quasi kind of friendship with them, though not a close friendship.

Anyway, I told her there were others like her, who were not LDS, and to look for them, and make friends. That is what she did, and her junior high and high school years were full of friends. There were a few LDS kids who didn’t fit in with the “in” LDS clique, who were in her group of friends. They were all supportive of each other.

We had over the years, one girl who was in the full blown Mormon rebellion. I told my daughter she was in rebellion against all things Mormon, and didn’t need to follow her there because she wasn’t Mormon. This girl hung out, or hid out, at our home. She thought it was amazing that we had a coffee machine. Lol. I would never serve her any though, because I was not going to go against her parent’s wishes.

Later, one of this group went on an LDS mission, and all the friends, no matter what religion or no religion, attended his farewell and his welcome home. While I have had my own struggles with Mormonism, I have never had the desire to pass those struggles on.

 

[Reepicheep]

Perhaps this person missed that talk.

Ah well. It was pleasant while it lasted. Too bad that they couldnt just let me be Catholic and be ok with that.

LDS folk aren’t the only ones who do that. Right now my best friend is trying to convince me to leave the Church. He’s a former atheist turned Messianic Jew, and thinks the Church is, more or less, Babylon the Great.

 

[7_Sorrows]

When my daughter faced the same, at about 10 years old, I told her that she had not done anything wrong, and that the problem was with the other kids. They are the ones who needed to work out how to live in a world where everyone is not like themselves. I told her to have compassion for them, because they hadnt been taught better, and she didn’t know why they acted the way they did. Interesting enough, it turned out the two biggest instigators against her were struggling in abusive homes, and both were involved with drugs, in junior high school. She later made a quasi kind of friendship with them, though not a close friendship.

Anyway, I told her there were others like her, who were not LDS, and to look for them, and make friends. That is what she did, and her junior high and high school years were full of friends. There were a few LDS kids who didn’t fit in with the “in” LDS clique, who were in her group of friends. They were all supportive of each other.

We had over the years, one girl who was in the full blown Mormon rebellion. I told my daughter she was in rebellion against all things Mormon, and didn’t need to follow her there because she wasn’t Mormon. This girl hung out, or hid out, at our home. She thought it was amazing that we had a coffee machine. Lol. I would never serve her any though, because I was not going to go against her parent’s wishes.

Later, one of this group went on an LDS mission, and all the friends, no matter what religion or no religion, attended his farewell and his welcome home. While I have had my own struggles with Mormonism, I have never had the desire to pass those struggles on.

Thank you for sharing your story and how you handled the situation with your daughter. It is sad to see your children in tears over this kind of thing and my grandson is very social and all boy and wants to be accepted. He invited them to his 7th birthday party and everyone had fun and got along well, but one of the instigators had a tragedy in their family. His 2 year old sister was run over by a car in front of their house. I went out of my way to always acknowledge this boy and his sister and greet them at the bus because I couldn’t imagine what they were going through. I just chit chatted - never brought up the accident.
They were really nice if the weather was bad and they wanted me to take them home so they didn’t have to walk. One day they were supersweet and came running to me to ask if they could come to my grandson’s birthday party. It wasn’t his birthday in the first place and there was no party. But I have witnessed their rudrness for 2 years so I don’t go out of my way anymore to take them home or to take an interest in them. They are rude kids and I really don’t want my grandson playing with them. But it was disappointing to see that in children who were 6, 7, and 8 and how they were fine with hurting someone else’s feelings.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thank you for sharing your story and how you handled the situation with your daughter. It is sad to see your children in tears over this kind of thing and my grandson is very social and all boy and wants to be accepted. He invited them to his 7th birthday party and everyone had fun and got along well, but one of the instigators had a tragedy in their family. His 2 year old sister was run over by a car in front of their house. I went out of my way to always acknowledge this boy and his sister and greet them at the bus because I couldn’t imagine what they were going through. I just chit chatted - never brought up the accident.
They were really nice if the weather was bad and they wanted me to take them home so they didn’t have to walk. One day they were supersweet and came running to me to ask if they could come to my grandson’s birthday party. It wasn’t his birthday in the first place and there was no party. But I have witnessed their rudrness for 2 years so I don’t go out of my way anymore to take them home or to take an interest in them. They are rude kids and I really don’t want my grandson playing with them. But it was disappointing to see that in children who were 6, 7, and 8 and how they were fine with hurting someone else’s feelings.

Poor kiddos, losing a sister.

That may have more to do with their behavior than anything. I’m not trying to be all armchair psychologist, just from experience, the way that LDS handle grief is to focus on what they believe as the truth. Comforting each other by pointing out how wonderful it is that they know things about a previous life, this life, and the next, that non-Mormons don’t know.

From my own experience, this can cause them to come across with a superiority complex. A child doesn’t know better.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Poor kiddos, losing a sister.

That may have more to do with their behavior than anything. I’m not trying to be all armchair psychologist, just from experience, the way that LDS handle grief is to focus on what they believe as the truth. Comforting each other by pointing out how wonderful it is that they know things about a previous life, this life, and the next, that non-Mormons don’t know.

From my own experience, this can cause them to come across with a superiority complex. A child doesn’t know better.

Actually they were misbehaving before the tragic accident happened.
I felt so bad for the family after the accident happened. But the behavior did get worse later. I am sure the kids were trying to handle their own grief as well as picking up on the parents grief.
The older brother (6th or 7th grader) comes to meet his smaller siblings and on the way home stops at the corner and makes out with the older sister of the other little boy and she is very young - 5th grade! She is a 5th grader going on 17! It is like a little soap opera.

 

[Horton]

When my kids were in grade school I decided to buy a home in a small community a few miles away from where I worked. I though it would be nice to raise my kids in the small town environment. Eighteen months later I sold the house at a huge loss and moved back to the bigger city. The small town was 95% LDS and 4.9% criminal. Since we didn’t fit into either category my kids were alienated at school, after school activities like scouts, and sports. Once the parents found out we could not be converted and I wouldn’t allow my kids to attend the LDS services they didn’t allow their kids to play with mine.

It broke my heart to see my boys never get a chance to play t-ball or little league because we were the wrong religion. I don’t really blame the kids but I do blame the parents. They modeled and encouraged hateful behavior based on religion.

Before my retirement I would often have students from a nearby LDS college do internships with me. One of the last ones was a young woman, 19 or 20, who was determined to convert me. I had to tell her several times I am a devout Catholic and could never believe the LDS story. She preceded to tell me that Catholics believe that babies go to hell if they die before they are baptised. Needless to say, she did not get a good evaluation on her internship from me. I wrote her advisor letting him know she may not be successful in our field if she could not accept diversity or stop proselytizing everyone she came in contact with. Before anyone jumps to the conclusion I gave her a bad eval for criticizing Catholics, there was a lot more that earned her a negative evaluation & recommendation. If she would have excelled in all the areas of the internship her negative comments about Catholicism would have been water under the bridge but she did not.

 

[7_Sorrows]

When my kids were in grade school I decided to buy a home in a small community a few miles away from where I worked. I though it would be nice to raise my kids in the small town environment. Eighteen months later I sold the house at a huge loss and moved back to the bigger city. The small town was 95% LDS and 4.9% criminal. Since we didn’t fit into either category my kids were alienated at school, after school activities like scouts, and sports. Once the parents found out we could not be converted and I wouldn’t allow my kids to attend the LDS services they didn’t allow their kids to play with mine.

It broke my heart to see my boys never get a chance to play t-ball or little league because we were the wrong religion. I don’t really blame the kids but I do blame the parents. They modeled and encouraged hateful behavior based on religion.

Before my retirement I would often have students from a nearby LDS college do internships with me. One of the last ones was a young woman, 19 or 20, who was determined to convert me. I had to tell her several times I am a devout Catholic and could never believe the LDS story. She preceded to tell me that Catholics believe that babies go to hell if they die before they are baptised. Needless to say, she did not get a good evaluation on her internship from me. I wrote her advisor letting him know she may not be successful in our field if she could not accept diversity or stop proselytizing everyone she came in contact with. Before anyone jumps to the conclusion I gave her a bad eval for criticizing Catholics, there was a lot more that earned her a negative evaluation & recommendation. If she would have excelled in all the areas of the internship her negative comments about Catholicism would have been water under the bridge but she did not.

My son and daughter-in-law bought a home in the county outside of a small town. Fortunately, the percentage of Mormons is not as high as where you were, but I felt bad from the moment we moved out here.
I wanted to go back to town where there is more diversity.
I came from a big city and prefer that even more.
I am Catholic and my daughter-in-law attends a non denominational church. They invited her over once and realized they were not going to convert her. I have always waved trying to be nice, but it is like they are not interested in even being neighborly if you aren’t one of them!
It is sad. They seem like nice people, but very superior to others.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Anyone know how the LDS laity are taught to deal with people who are not of their faith these days?

They are taught to proselytize them, they are taught to have a plan to proselytize them.
They are exhorted by leadership to have a family missionary plan.

 

[lax16]

They are taught to proselytize them, they are taught to have a plan to proselytize them.
They are exhorted by leadership to have a family missionary plan.

Several sources say that about only one third of baptized members attend church, maybe 4-5 million, and that their numbers are decreasing. I think they are feeling the pressure to step up their efforts.

Unfortunately, it would be better if they would just be friendly because they are sincere about the relationship. It has happened to us many times here in Utah.

 

[Marie5890]

They are taught to proselytize them, they are taught to have a plan to proselytize them.
They are exhorted by leadership to have a family missionary plan.

I went and read the article and my thought was “this works for them? Really? This is a successful way of gaining converts?”

May be it does produce fruit? But I doubt it. It so contrived, IMO.

 

[Horton]

I went and read the article and my thought was “this works for them? Really? This is a successful way of gaining converts?”

May be it does produce fruit? But I doubt it. It so contrived, IMO.

I don’t know if it works for them. It would be difficult to get real numbers as that information would have to come from the LDS themselves. But I do know they tend to gain converts of those who are having difficulties in life. I volunteer for a local charity and spoke with a woman who was considering converting to the LDS because they were helping her financially. She was in a difficult position in life and needed some help.She asked me some questions about Catholicism and seemed interested but she was afraid to stop talking to the LDS for fear they would not help her any longer. I’ve only seen her a couple of times since then and haven’t had a chance to really talk to her.

 

[XuDan]

I went and read the article and my thought was “this works for them? Really? This is a successful way of gaining converts?”

May be it does produce fruit? But I doubt it. It so contrived, IMO.

The squeeky wheel get’s the grease…

I don’t know if it works for them. It would be difficult to get real numbers as that information would have to come from the LDS themselves. But I do know they tend to gain converts of those who are having difficulties in life. I volunteer for a local charity and spoke with a woman who was considering converting to the LDS because they were helping her financially. She was in a difficult position in life and needed some help.She asked me some questions about Catholicism and seemed interested but she was afraid to stop talking to the LDS for fear they would not help her any longer. I’ve only seen her a couple of times since then and haven’t had a chance to really talk to her.

This reminds me of tactics used by dealers. Give out a taste of the product and get people hooked and feeling dependent - then you’re assured to have a new customer. I always felt like church service felt more like a corporate board meeting, or job training (the second and third hour classes), and their approach to enriching the church is much like a corporation: to enrich, you grow. To grow you require sales and increased customer base. To achieve this you must market effectively.

For a long time I had a suspicion that I was seen as a resource to the church more than I was a brother in Christ. It’s part of my general distrust for organized religion, even now. It’s part of what held me back from seeking out a spiritual home after I left.

So yeah, I’m not surprised that this woman won’t stop talking to them. They probably told her that as a member she would be able to be helped by their various internal member welfare programs. Like job placement, bishops store house (free food), and in some cases the church will even help you pay your bills. You course you need to be a sustaining member for family of a sustaining member for this

 

[kimg901]

Things I’ve noticed while living in Utah about their techniques.
I have lived in 4 different areas in Salt Lake County (Magna, West Jordan, South Jordan & Riverton) and it’s always been the same.

1. We move in and its always hello and waving when they drive by and welcoming us to the neighborhood. My kids played with the other kids.
2. Within a month the missionaries are knocking on our door and we politely let them know we are Catholic and are not converting. I proceed to talk to them and point out things with their churches history.
3. Next thing we know is our kids are not allowed to play with the other kids. The hellos and waving stop and we get the cold shoulder.

So what is being taught to the lds that would make them act this way? I do know that Non-Utah Mormons are completely different and are more laxed and really don’t care what religion we are. And this is just the beginning of the things my family has had to put up with.

 

[Marie5890]

Things I’ve noticed while living in Utah about their techniques.
I have lived in 4 different areas in Salt Lake County (Magna, West Jordan, South Jordan & Riverton) and it’s always been the same.

1. We move in and its always hello and waving when they drive by and welcoming us to the neighborhood. My kids played with the other kids.
2. Within a month the missionaries are knocking on our door and we politely let them know we are Catholic and are not converting. I proceed to talk to them and point out things with their churches history.
3. Next thing we know is our kids are not allowed to play with the other kids. The hellos and waving stop and we get the cold shoulder.

So what is being taught to the lds that would make them act this way? I do know that Non-Utah Mormons are completely different and are more laxed and really don’t care what religion we are. And this is just the beginning of the things my family has had to put up with.

Your neighbors send the missionaries to your home without letting you know? With out your permission?

Im speechless…
Why would ANY one do such a thing?

 

[JaminB123]

It was clear to me that they kept trying to draw me into a we vs them discussion of who is right and who is wrong, but I have always kindly pushed back against this, wanting to keep it a friendly and non-competitive dialogue.

As a Catholic with many Mormons in my life, my personal experience is this… Most Mormons aren’t capable of defending their faith without attacking Catholicism so it’s difficult to have a conversation focused on Mormonism. Also, once the LDS realize that there’s no hope of converting me, the conversation is over and there’s no hope for further dialogue. Most Mormons I know (many) consider me a lost cause.

 

[Marie5890]

As a Catholic with many Mormons in my life, my personal experience is this… Most Mormons aren’t capable of defending their faith without attacking Catholicism so it’s difficult to have a conversation focused on Mormonism. Also, once the LDS realize that there’s no hope of converting me, the conversation is over and there’s no hope for further dialogue. Most Mormons I know (many) consider me a lost cause.

This is just so very wrong on so many levels.

 

[Horton]

So what is being taught to the lds that would make them act this way? I do know that Non-Utah Mormons are completely different and are more laxed and really don’t care what religion we are. And this is just the beginning of the things my family has had to put up with.

Parts of Idaho are this way also.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Parts of Idaho are this way also.

The Mormons in Arizona are very cliquish and have airs of superiority.
The children as well as the adults.

 

[lax16]

Things I’ve noticed while living in Utah about their techniques.
I have lived in 4 different areas in Salt Lake County (Magna, West Jordan, South Jordan & Riverton) and it’s always been the same.

1. We move in and its always hello and waving when they drive by and welcoming us to the neighborhood. My kids played with the other kids.
2. Within a month the missionaries are knocking on our door and we politely let them know we are Catholic and are not converting. I proceed to talk to them and point out things with their churches history.
3. Next thing we know is our kids are not allowed to play with the other kids. The hellos and waving stop and we get the cold shoulder.

So what is being taught to the lds that would make them act this way? I do know that Non-Utah Mormons are completely different and are more laxed and really don’t care what religion we are. And this is just the beginning of the things my family has had to put up with.

Funny, when we built our house in Draper we had the exact same situation. Once our house went on the market I had different Mormons tell me that if I lived on the west side this never would have happened to us.

Obviously, it does.

 

[iepuras]

Anyone know how the LDS laity are taught to deal with people who are not of their faith these days?

I have been having a pleasant dialogue with a Mormon. They know I am a serious Catholic. I know that they are a serious Mormon.

It was clear to me that they kept trying to draw me into a we vs them discussion of who is right and who is wrong, but I have always kindly pushed back against this, wanting to keep it a friendly and non-competitive dialogue.

I had hopes that the Mormon church would have lightened up some when it became clear to a member that someone they were having a friendly association with really was not interested, yet would still wanting to continue on with said friendly association.

But I feel like I have been dropped like a hot potato.

I was truly enjoying the association, but I certainly have no desire to re-join the faith.
It’s disappointing. It’s not like this person is a missionary with time constraints.
Deep sigh

That is really very sad. I grew up in Texas and never tried to “be a missionary”, but I’m an introvert and believe in “live and let live”. Only once did I have friends come to church with me but only because they asked to come visit. They were researching a bunch of churches and were making the rounds in visiting. I was very careful about it because I didn’t want them to come for fast & testimony meeting!

Frankly, I’m surprised that a Mormon would act like that where you are located. There are not many Mormons in that part of the country.

Periodically, we would get the “every member a missionary” pep talks in church and how we needed to have a family missionary plan to bring our friends and neighbors into the LDS church. I remember my last bishop got up and told us that there were 5 people who needed to join the LDS church in our ward and that we needed to find them. Sometimes the youth will be encouraged to hand out a Book of Mormon to someone. Of course, they all would return and report during fast & testimony meeting.

A couple of months ago, I saw that someone from my old ward was asked to give a talk at stake conference about how to use social media to “spread the Gospel”. My poor Facebook newsfeed! Fortunately, I am also Facebook friends with my priest and he is quite active on Facebook. He does a great job counteracting all the Mormon stuff on my newsfeed!