Presider's Chair

[KatieD]

I’m hoping someone can clear up something for me.

In my parish, our lector and commentator process in with the celebrating priest and then sit up at the front on either side of the celebrant. (There is a slightly smaller chair on either side of the presider’s chair.) Today our visiting priest and I were talking and he told me that he has told our liturgy director that this is not allowed, that those who are doing the readings should come from the pews. (Our liturgy director told him that this is “how we do it” and “we’ve always done it this way.”) As soon as he said this, I realized that indeed, in my parish as a child, the readers did come up from the pews and then returned to the pews when they were done. Is that the correct place for those reading?

 

[puzzleannie]

if the presiders chair is in the sanctuary where it should be, and the smaller chairs flank it, no, the lay readers should not be there. They don’t belong in the sanctuary. Some churches have them sit in the front, in our church they sit across from the choir (flanking the altar). In churches with other designs they should come from the assembly, in fact, as I recall when the changes that allowed lay readers were introduced the liturgical reformers made a huge deal about readers, communion ministers and other lay persons coming up from the assembly.

 

[KatieD]

Thank you - the chairs are indeed in the sanctuary. I had a feeling this morning that he was right. He is a very holy, reverent priest, and he will only be with us for a few months, unfortunately. He’s had several run-ins with staff members who have been around for years and do things “their way.” I’ll have to be sure to let them know that he has our support. He also told me that ideally, the candles shouldn’t necessarily be ON the altar but rather should be standing NEXT to the altar. Is that also correct? Thanks!

 

[THurifer2]

I am sorry but this seems extremely ultra progressive to me. I have never in my life heard of lay people sitting in chairs flanking the presiders chars. Sounds like you a have a serious case of spirit of Vaticantwoitis to me.

 

[tee_eff_em]

It’s a long paragraph from the GIRM, so I’ve emphasized the relevant bit.

1. The chair of the priest celebrant must signify his office of presiding over the gathering and of directing the prayer. Thus the best place for the chair is in a position facing the people at the head of the sanctuary, unless the design of the building or other circumstances impede this: for example, if the great distance would interfere with communication between the priest and the gathered assembly, or if the tabernacle is in the center behind the altar. Any appearance of a throne, however, is to be avoided. It is appropriate that, before being put into liturgical use, the chair be blessed according to the rite described in the Roman Ritual.

Likewise, seats should be arranged in the sanctuary for concelebrating priests as well as for priests who are present for the celebration in choir dress but who are not concelebrating.

The seat for the deacon should be placed near that of the celebrant. Seats for the other ministers are to be arranged so that they are clearly distinguishable from those for the clergy and so that the ministers are easily able to fulfill the function entrusted to them.

That said, I’ve seen this go back and forth over the years as far as lectors and EMsHC sitting in the sanctuary or in the assembly, varying from time to time and place to place. (But when in the sanctuary, they have always been easily distinguishable from clergy)

Similarly: I’ve sometimes seen EMsHC vested in albs, mostly not. I do not think I’ve ever seen a vested reader, but I suppose it would not surprise me)

tee

 

[dbacks5439]

Thank you - the chairs are indeed in the sanctuary. I had a feeling this morning that he was right. He is a very holy, reverent priest, and he will only be with us for a few months, unfortunately. He’s had several run-ins with staff members who have been around for years and do things “their way.” I’ll have to be sure to let them know that he has our support. He also told me that ideally, the candles shouldn’t necessarily be ON the altar but rather should be standing NEXT to the altar. Is that also correct? Thanks!

Sounds like my kind of priest!!! Just because something’s been done for some time does not make it correct. I too wonder about the candle situation since my parish has the candles on the altar. IMO, I think the candles should be next to the altar.

 

[puzzleannie]

Thank you - the chairs are indeed in the sanctuary. I had a feeling this morning that he was right. He is a very holy, reverent priest, and he will only be with us for a few months, unfortunately. He’s had several run-ins with staff members who have been around for years and do things “their way.” !

our former pastor had a solution to this problem. He was replacing a dearly beloved long-time pastor, and even if Pope John Paul had been appointed he would have been resented by the old timers. He held a parish council meeting, “promoted” all current members and leaders of parish organization to a new evangelization project, and held new elections. Then at the end of the year he announced a blanket policy that parishioners would serve a max of 3 years in any ministry, then be relieved to “discern the guidance of the Holy Spirit in pursuing other ministries or apostolates”. In effect, by the end of the year he had fired or kicked upstairs everybody who had previously had a lock on every ministry.

He held all elections by the Holy Spirit method: put the nominees in a hat, pray to the Holy Spirit, and pull names out of the hat.

He also asked for resignations of all paid staff members, encouraged them to submit new applications and resumes, being sure to list all the additional training and experience they had gained on the job. A couple got re-hired, the rest he replaced with hand picked people, and we were out of the red within a year as well.

He effectively silenced the opposition before they could mobilize against him. He also coopted them with the bishop by discussing his plans beforehand with the chancery.

 

[Tedster]

He also told me that ideally, the candles shouldn’t necessarily be ON the altar but rather should be standing NEXT to the altar. Is that also correct?

From the GIRM (2002):

1. The altar is to be covered with at least one white cloth. In addition, on or next to the altar are to be placed candlesticks with lighted candles: at least two in any celebration, or even four or six, especially for a Sunday Mass or a holy day of obligation. If the Diocesan Bishop celebrates, then seven candles should be used. Also on or close to the altar, there is to be a cross with a figure of Christ crucified. The candles and the cross adorned with a figure of Christ crucified may also be carried in the Entrance Procession. On the altar itself may be placed the Book of the Gospels, distinct from the book of other readings, unless it is carried in the Entrance Procession.

 

[Like]

our former pastor had a solution to this problem. He was replacing a dearly beloved long-time pastor, and even if Pope John Paul had been appointed he would have been resented by the old timers. He held a parish council meeting, “promoted” all current members and leaders of parish organization to a new evangelization project, and held new elections. Then at the end of the year he announced a blanket policy that parishioners would serve a max of 3 years in any ministry, then be relieved to “discern the guidance of the Holy Spirit in pursuing other ministries or apostolates”. In effect, by the end of the year he had fired or kicked upstairs everybody who had previously had a lock on every ministry.

He held all elections by the Holy Spirit method: put the nominees in a hat, pray to the Holy Spirit, and pull names out of the hat.

He also asked for resignations of all paid staff members, encouraged them to submit new applications and resumes, being sure to list all the additional training and experience they had gained on the job. A couple got re-hired, the rest he replaced with hand picked people, and we were out of the red within a year as well.

He effectively silenced the opposition before they could mobilize against him. He also coopted them with the bishop by discussing his plans beforehand with the chancery.

**WOW WOW WOW!!!
**puzzleannie, that really brings back dear loved memoirs. It reminds me of my childhood parish in Corpus run by a great & holy priest Rev.AL Cannon. Of coarse that was back in 40’s & 50’s. I dearly miss that!
Mahalo for the post!