Presiding Priest as Minister of the Cup

[mrterryc]

I believe there was a time when we never even thought to question what a priest did during Mass, and it has become tiresome to feel like we need to become personal experts on the GIRM in order to comment on things which appear “questionable.”

A priest in our parish has recently begun, at daily Mass, with FIVE “extraordinary” ministers of Communion (attendance averages 75 or so) to be one of the “Ministers of the Cup,” leaving two “extraordinary” lay ministers to be one of two “Ministers of the Bread.”

I know the presiding Priest is the “ordinary” minister of Communion, and we receive the Body and Blood of Our Lord under either species, so the priest is not violating his ministry.

But is this right? Is this allowed? If nothing else, it gives the “impression” that all “Ministers of Communion” are “ordinary” and “equal.” Yes, of course, we are all equal before God, but doesn’t the priest not only represent but … BE something other than ourselves, i.e., “alter christus”?

It’s been my experience that asking priests questions about such things is to be invited to “remember your place,” so there is obviously SOME recognition of their status vis a vis us simple lay people.

I really don’t want to become a “liturgy cop.” But occasionally I’m just stopped in my tracks at some of the things I observe and no one feels the need to “catechize” us with regard to liturgical practice and participation. All of a sudden, something’s “different” and “who are we to question?”

Anyone here knowledgable about this?

Terry Carroll

 

[Ham1]

It definitely sounds as though there are a few too many EMHC’s at the daily mass. The only passage that I know of that relates to this issue is in the GIRM.

"284 When Communion is distributed under both kinds:

a) as a general rule, the deacon administers the chalice, or in his absence, a priest may do so, or an instituted acolyte or another extraordinary minister of Holy Communion; even a member of the faithful may do so, to whom, in case of necessity, this office has been entrusted for the occasion;"

It doesn’t really prohibit the celebrant from administering the chalice, but then again it doesn’t really endorse it either.

Sorry, I know that wasn’t much help…interesting question, though.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Terry,

The GIRM specifies that the the priest “takes the paten or ciborium and goes to the communicants.” (GIRM #160) A deacon is normally the minister of the cup (GIRM #182).

Deacon Ed

 

[CatholicNerd]

mrterryc:

If nothing else, it gives the “impression” that all “Ministers of Communion” are “ordinary” and “equal.” Yes, of course, we are all equal before God, but doesn’t the priest not only represent but … BE something other than ourselves, i.e., “alter christus”?

Terry Carroll

At least your bishop hasn’t promulgated a diocesan letter saying exactly that… well, I hope he hasn’t. Mine did earlier this year (Spokane, not Yakima). In the letter he nixed kneeling during communion, threatened that anyone who genuflected or bowed deeply before receiving communion or (gasp) knelt to receive communino on the tongue may be denied Holy Communion (this is happened already in the diocese). And the kicker: “it must be made known that no ministry, including the priestly office, is of greater value than the other.” Uh… no priest, no Mass…

So to answer your question, yes, the priest is something that we as laypeople are not. I firmly believe that only men with major orders should be allowed to distribute the sacred species unless there’s a really good reason not to. Last night there were five extraordinary ministers of communion at a Mass with maybe 30 people there. It was extremely disconcerting. I suspect that the priest could have handled 30 people on his own…

And don’t ya just love how short communion is now that we have armies of extraordinary ministers near our altars? Last night it took about three minutes. Ridiculous. Wanna know how to fix this mess? Two words: altar rails.

 

[firemnbob]

CatholicNerd:

Mine did earlier this year (Spokane, not Yakima). In the letter he nixed kneeling during communion, threatened that anyone who genuflected or bowed deeply before receiving communion or (gasp) knelt to receive communino on the tongue may be denied Holy Communion (this is happened already in the diocese). And the kicker: “it must be made known that no ministry, including the priestly office, is of greater value than the other.” Uh… no priest, no Mass…

Shouldn’t the Archbishop of the diocese be the governing body within your area? So if I go to receive communion, being from a different diocese, and choose to bow prior to receiving Christ, I could be refused? Why has he brought the position of the Priesthood down to the average person? There are sooooo many things wrong with that statement, where to begin. I would write the Archbishop on that one. Good luck to you, CatholicNerd.

 

[PASCENDI]

The number of Eucharistic Ministers should NEVER exceed the number of communicants!

 

[CatholicNerd]

firemnbob:

Shouldn’t the Archbishop of the diocese be the governing body within your area? So if I go to receive communion, being from a different diocese, and choose to bow prior to receiving Christ, I could be refused? Why has he brought the position of the Priesthood down to the average person? There are sooooo many things wrong with that statement, where to begin. I would write the Archbishop on that one. Good luck to you, CatholicNerd.

Well, I’m home for the summer in another diocese (The Diocese of Yakima, once the see of now Cardinal George). Merifully, His Grace the Bishop of Yakima has not enacted such policy. Although I am technically a member of the Diocese of Spokane (I am registered at the parish that received me into full communion with the Church), I have chosen to follow the norms set down by the Bishop of Yakima, Carlos Sevilla. God bless him. He’s boxed in geographically by liberal bishops and archbishops and is doing his best to preserve the faith around here.

Sad that this is even an issue! I have seen many visitors from out of town to the Cathedral in Spokane and they are almost always shocked that people stand from the Pater Noster all the way to the END of the distribution. I guess Bishop Skylstad just expects visitors to pick up on the fact that they are not supposed to show reverence to their Lord. But what can ya do? Bishop Skylstad is the vice president of the USCCB. He’s currently pushing to make this a NATIONAL NORM and I suspect many bishops would be more than happy to adopt this policy.